Schwitzer Turbo

This is NO BUMP!

Why is there no before and after water/meth dyno comparisions?

or am i gonna be the first?

i thought of Bumping the water injection THE FACTS post from 2003, but i think the first post said it all. and give alot of Insperation.

I dont care how it works, i just know it does but how does one tune this thing.
to many other people are making to much power with water meth

b18.

I thought people actually cared about how it works, so they can figure out whether or not it's worth it on their setup.

Usiing a fuel with a higher octane rating is going to allow you to run more boost and move your detonation threshold outwards. That's a no brainer.

Schwitzer Turbo

PS: i do care how it works now its time to make the power....


so what would be the Best way to impliment this into my setup as my setup has already come so far.

if im boosting 1.5 bar on pump with meth whould it be theoretical for me to boost 2.5 bars?

who else has gone into the field and come buck with results.

and does timing kill motor's? is there alot of power in advancing timing? cos what i have been told is that it safe to boost more with conservitive timing than to any advance timing?

b18.

------- christ.

You are putting the cart before the horse.

The addition of water and methanol makes it harder to bond hexane molecules with oxygen (ignition phenomena) because there is more mols of given the given gas, and the chemical bonds in propyl molecules are "stronger" than a hexane.

Advanced timing is only good for power if you can utilize it to explode more gas at a desireable piston position, i.e. when a surge of expanding gas would translate into kinetic energy, like when the piston has just begun to descend; the most desriable would be total combustion by mid-stroke.

In an N/A motor to achieve better combustion you would advance the timing so the air/fuel mixture would ignite before the piston is at TDC (the piston will still be compressing the gas, gas isn't fully compressed- requires less current to light, once ignited compressed molecules will propagate more quickly than if the piston was decending) hence when you are checking timing you want it to be around 15o before TDC (Honda), for proper combustion.

Now with a boosted motor you have much more gas occupying the cylinder than you would with an N/A motor. Which is why as the amount of gas (pressure units) increases you want to retard the timing, the molecules are closer together and will propagate flame more quickly, too advanced and you are going going to have full combustion at the wrong piston position (oh noes for your rods, pistons, and sometimes the block; on occasion all three, but the weakest link tends to go first.)

This is why tuning ignition timing is deemed a bit trickier than A/F, you want to get maximum flame propagation (exploding all that chemical potential energy is a good thing) without destroying your engine. This is where A/F tuning and ignition tuning get a bit more interelated, as per usual you tune the A/F first, this is smart because then you can tune the timing for whichever A/F ratio you have established, but "tuning A/F for power" incurs running the most efficient (usually leaner, but there is diminishing returns) ratio you can without getting dastardly preignition (having the mixture ignite prematurely,essentially the same as too far advanced timing but it is spontaneous, piston comes up while gas is pushing down; ask Fred and JD, I'm sure they're both very familiar with exploding too quickly)

Now a leaner burn will require less advance to combust entirely. Why? Because there is less reactant (fuel), to burn (react with oxygen) so less time is required for a complete reaction to occur, which essentially translates to more efficient power; add more fuel and air in the same increments and you will have more power. Now with a richer mixture you could further advance the timing because there is more reactant to burn, in most cases this is inefficient, but this is why old carbureted, power valve added, vacuum advanced, contact point V8's are so ------- badass. When the engine is at a high rpm there is more vacuum, a specific resistance spring mechanism allows the timing to be advanced accordingly and the big ------- carb + extra valve for increased airflow (higher vacuum venturi) gives you massive amounts of ridiculousity (HOSPOWAH).

What water injection allows you to do is add more molecules of Oxygen to the mixture, essentially raising the "octane rating" of the fuel, the more molecules of reactant the longer the reaction will take, the less preignition/detonation you will have (detonation occurs when the fuel mixture ignites spontaneously at random intervals due to heat, usually collections of matter with different thermal properties than the rest of the metal cause "hotspots"; carbon deposits built up over time are the most common). The introduction of a molecule with a high specific heat capacity also keeps ignition temps reasonable, versus a lean mixture which will incur more heat (less fuel to react and carry away the heat).

The reason that Methanol injection is so nice is for essentially the same reason, propylene molecules have strong chemical bonds, which translates to a high chemical potential energy (lots of energy is released when the bonds are broken) so effectively it requires much more energy to break the bond (heat) and the A/F mixture will not explode as easily as gasoline alone (which has weaker bonds, requires less heat to ignite = preignition and detonation at lower heat levels).

These effectively raise the threshold for detonation, or the knock limit (knocking is the sound of preignition, rod knock, piston slap, and other mechanical maladies are coined thusly because of the similar sound *clack*clack*pop*I'm dying*clack*) which translates to you being able to shove more gas into your engine without it exploding at the wrong time, which usually equates to massive amounts of ridiculousity (B000Stt y0!)

This is why nobody has come back with "results", because it isn't a "bolt-on" matter. Now if JD would please pull his dick out of Fred's ***, I'd like to make another thread that has strictly NO BULLSHIT and only accurate details pertaining to the subject because this is a viable means of making more power for cheap.

I'll put together a good, honest, accurate, technical thread when I don't have to study for a B/S Economics final exam, the likes of which I believe HMT is in dire need of.

Granted, I am no one special. I am nothing more than an 18-year-old, punk-***, hippie with a mad weed habit and a chip on his shoulder. Someday I will build your airplanes.

Schwitzer Turbo

If all that info is correct! than that is a Great post very informative! Locked it, make it Sticky,think you answerd 90% of my Cue's.

b18.

Good to hear that cleared up your questions.


and yes, it's all correct.

fe3tcourier

will the air planes have paranoid software running on them due to the THC levels in the silicone wafers transferred to it by your hands?

b18.

No, but they will have artificial ******* machines in the cockpits. Pilots will worship me.

bigdaddyvtec

Now thats first class....

This thread needs a retroactive abortion...

b18.

I'm just going to make a new one, and explicitly ask the mods to keep it clean.