Water Injection 2007
09-29-2007, 04:50 PM
#101
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Water Injection 2007
Originally Posted by fe3tcourier
urrrr, no. you forgot the other 15psi. the 15psi most of us live in.
also, 10psi is on the low side for anything that needs water injection.
LOL, i wont be figuring it out, i am confident enough in my ability to guess that i dont feel the need.
ROTFLMAO. fortunately i'm not one of those silly australasians that cares if you try to tell them they **** sheep, or are just like ozzies, or just like kiwis, or want to be one or the other. so keep trying to insult me, i find it hilarious when well executed like that.
i'll hook you up with a spin in the ute, and some sheep on a plate. thats the only two places i see them anyway. blurred from the side window, or sitting fattily on the plate.
fred.
also, 10psi is on the low side for anything that needs water injection.
LOL, i wont be figuring it out, i am confident enough in my ability to guess that i dont feel the need.
ROTFLMAO. fortunately i'm not one of those silly australasians that cares if you try to tell them they **** sheep, or are just like ozzies, or just like kiwis, or want to be one or the other. so keep trying to insult me, i find it hilarious when well executed like that.
i'll hook you up with a spin in the ute, and some sheep on a plate. thats the only two places i see them anyway. blurred from the side window, or sitting fattily on the plate.
fred.
On a higher boost application where there would be more heat in the charge you would have the water evaporate and lower the IAT, but the main application these guys are looking for is safely upping the boost on their 1.6L Hondas with stock internals, i.e. not risking detonation near the mechanical threshold of their dinky rods (~8-10+psi).
I'm vegematarian but I'd make an exception, when in rome right? Besides I've always wanted to go down there, wanted to end up living in the BFE outback, or in the NE part of Ausland, surf burly heads every day.
Besides how insulting is a ------- sheep in stockings? Honestly Fred
09-29-2007, 05:55 PM
#102
1.5 BAR
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 752
Re: Water Injection 2007
Originally Posted by wafflesincars
Oh ------- damn I did neglect atmospheric, it was pretty late, and you would have to factor that in to see how hot the charge has to be. So then 24.7psi, (at sea level) would give us 1.703x105 Pascals and put the change of state at around 400oK. Which doesn't help your argument though, as there isn't enough heat to evaporate the water
On a higher boost application where there would be more heat in the charge you would have the water evaporate and lower the IAT, but the main application these guys are looking for is safely upping the boost on their 1.6L Hondas with stock internals, i.e. not risking detonation near the mechanical threshold of their dinky rods (~8-10+psi).
I'm vegematarian but I'd make an exception, when in rome right? Besides I've always wanted to go down there, wanted to end up living in the BFE outback, or in the NE part of Ausland, surf burly heads every day.
Besides how insulting is a ------- sheep in stockings? Honestly Fred
09-30-2007, 08:52 AM
#104
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 44
Re: Water Injection 2007
Hmmm. i think we went off topic but the way i see it is!
1) we dont live in a perfect world
2) if we did we wouldnt want to/need touse race gas or WI
But we Dont live in a perfect world. on the Street my car is Very Competitive. But tunning with high octane gas/ running WI can bring some big HP gain's .
So there is no real point arguing how or why water injection works, we dont study how the turbo was invented, we just use it till destruction. No point in arguing about how the WHeel was invented..
So PURE Water Injection is BS/ a waste of time Yes PWI can work but not enuff gains for the tuning required.
Will a 100% methonal System make more power than a 50-50.
Some people you meth injection just to increase the octane buy a few points keep the car running cool/Safe.
Other use a Total Swicth over from pump gas to feul methonal but when the small meth tank runs out Kaboom, what is the best system to use/ which will give you more power or is it a case of how long is a piece of string?
1) we dont live in a perfect world
2) if we did we wouldnt want to/need touse race gas or WI
But we Dont live in a perfect world. on the Street my car is Very Competitive. But tunning with high octane gas/ running WI can bring some big HP gain's .
So there is no real point arguing how or why water injection works, we dont study how the turbo was invented, we just use it till destruction. No point in arguing about how the WHeel was invented..
So PURE Water Injection is BS/ a waste of time Yes PWI can work but not enuff gains for the tuning required.
Will a 100% methonal System make more power than a 50-50.
Some people you meth injection just to increase the octane buy a few points keep the car running cool/Safe.
Other use a Total Swicth over from pump gas to feul methonal but when the small meth tank runs out Kaboom, what is the best system to use/ which will give you more power or is it a case of how long is a piece of string?
09-30-2007, 02:57 PM
#105
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Water Injection 2007
Originally Posted by circleburner
Hmmm. i think we went off topic but the way i see it is!
1) we dont live in a perfect world
2) if we did we wouldnt want to/need touse race gas or WI
But we Dont live in a perfect world. on the Street my car is Very Competitive. But tunning with high octane gas/ running WI can bring some big HP gain's .
So there is no real point arguing how or why water injection works, we dont study how the turbo was invented, we just use it till destruction. No point in arguing about how the WHeel was invented..
So PURE Water Injection is BS/ a waste of time Yes PWI can work but not enuff gains for the tuning required.
Will a 100% methonal System make more power than a 50-50.
Some people you meth injection just to increase the octane buy a few points keep the car running cool/Safe.
Other use a Total Swicth over from pump gas to feul methonal but when the small meth tank runs out Kaboom, what is the best system to use/ which will give you more power or is it a case of how long is a piece of string?
1) we dont live in a perfect world
2) if we did we wouldnt want to/need touse race gas or WI
But we Dont live in a perfect world. on the Street my car is Very Competitive. But tunning with high octane gas/ running WI can bring some big HP gain's .
So there is no real point arguing how or why water injection works, we dont study how the turbo was invented, we just use it till destruction. No point in arguing about how the WHeel was invented..
So PURE Water Injection is BS/ a waste of time Yes PWI can work but not enuff gains for the tuning required.
Will a 100% methonal System make more power than a 50-50.
Some people you meth injection just to increase the octane buy a few points keep the car running cool/Safe.
Other use a Total Swicth over from pump gas to feul methonal but when the small meth tank runs out Kaboom, what is the best system to use/ which will give you more power or is it a case of how long is a piece of string?
09-30-2007, 11:14 PM
#106
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 0
Re: Water Injection 2007
I figured I'd give this thread a minute to stew, and see if Fred cared to post up some calculations. So far, all I've read are excuses:
It's been two days, Fred. Are you incapable? You're a good one for criticising my sources, derived by men who could mathematically model the world around them, when you are obviously uncomfortable with expressing the physicaly world mathematically. So far the only thing you've produced is based off of a 2 liter engine at 3000 rpms (lol), 0 psi of boost (lol), and 100% volumetric efficiency (lol), and it is very much inadequate.
Get with the program, Fred. If you need a day or two to get your figures together then state when you'll have them and stick to it... or shut the ---- up.
+1
I'm in an engineering curriculum right now, it's electronics not ME but I started on the ME path 17 years ago and have all the first two years of math and physics under my belt - I very much used them as I followed the path of the tuenarboi. I've been on Dean's or President's List for the last year.
I am currently taking a digital communications course, which is one of the ones meant to weed out the mentally weak from the program. It's obstensibly calculus based, but aside from a few derivations pertaining to Fourier Transforms it's just another applied algebra course. 60% of the other students have failled the class previously, some twice before, and the class averages for the first two tests were 71 and 63. I have a 98 average in the class because I am comfortable with mathematics and the physical realities they describe. There are two other people (in a class of 2
with averages over 90. I am not the mentally weak, and frankly anyone claiming to be a mere engineering student isn't worth me peeing on.
As an engineering student, while I make spur of the moment rule of thumb judgements based off of publications I have read and my personal experience with cars, I am fully capable of performing the calculations involved to back up what I say. This talonator1488 **** loving ---- needs to act like he's gotten past his gen ed requirements and into some actual engineering courses, meaning come forth with some ------- figures or something of more substance than fanboy nutriding, if he wants to swing his e-***** around in a technical discussion.
Originally Posted by fe3tcourier
i can address. i have the constants, but i have to go to bed... so i'll post up the calculations tomorrow (rough and ready ones...)
Get with the program, Fred. If you need a day or two to get your figures together then state when you'll have them and stick to it... or shut the ---- up.
Originally Posted by Snafubmx234
You're just like the rest of those "I'm an ME major, so I know everything!" kids. As an engineer you'll have to build on that idea you have in your little brain (like the one you have now about water injection!). Once you do some research (which you obviously haven't done) and come to a conclusion, you'll sometimes have to admit you're wrong.... and this is one of those times. I suggest you become an English major since you lack communication skills and you have no future as a ME.
I'm done with pathetic little kids who think they know everything. Use your head instead of running your mouth. Oh, and one other thing - learn to read, ******.
I'm done with pathetic little kids who think they know everything. Use your head instead of running your mouth. Oh, and one other thing - learn to read, ******.
I'm in an engineering curriculum right now, it's electronics not ME but I started on the ME path 17 years ago and have all the first two years of math and physics under my belt - I very much used them as I followed the path of the tuenarboi. I've been on Dean's or President's List for the last year.
I am currently taking a digital communications course, which is one of the ones meant to weed out the mentally weak from the program. It's obstensibly calculus based, but aside from a few derivations pertaining to Fourier Transforms it's just another applied algebra course. 60% of the other students have failled the class previously, some twice before, and the class averages for the first two tests were 71 and 63. I have a 98 average in the class because I am comfortable with mathematics and the physical realities they describe. There are two other people (in a class of 2
with averages over 90. I am not the mentally weak, and frankly anyone claiming to be a mere engineering student isn't worth me peeing on.As an engineering student, while I make spur of the moment rule of thumb judgements based off of publications I have read and my personal experience with cars, I am fully capable of performing the calculations involved to back up what I say. This talonator1488 **** loving ---- needs to act like he's gotten past his gen ed requirements and into some actual engineering courses, meaning come forth with some ------- figures or something of more substance than fanboy nutriding, if he wants to swing his e-***** around in a technical discussion.
09-30-2007, 11:24 PM
#107
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Water Injection 2007
Originally Posted by Joseph Davis
I figured I'd give this thread a minute to stew, and see if Fred cared to post up some calculations. So far, all I've read are excuses:
It's been two days, Fred. Are you incapable? You're a good one for criticising my sources, derived by men who could mathematically model the world around them, when you are obviously uncomfortable with expressing the physicaly world mathematically. So far the only thing you've produced is based off of a 2 liter engine at 3000 rpms (lol), 0 psi of boost (lol), and 100% volumetric efficiency (lol), and it is very much inadequate.
Get with the program, Fred. If you need a day or two to get your figures together then state when you'll have them and stick to it... or shut the ---- up.
It's been two days, Fred. Are you incapable? You're a good one for criticising my sources, derived by men who could mathematically model the world around them, when you are obviously uncomfortable with expressing the physicaly world mathematically. So far the only thing you've produced is based off of a 2 liter engine at 3000 rpms (lol), 0 psi of boost (lol), and 100% volumetric efficiency (lol), and it is very much inadequate.
Get with the program, Fred. If you need a day or two to get your figures together then state when you'll have them and stick to it... or shut the ---- up.
09-30-2007, 11:47 PM
#108
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 0
Re: Water Injection 2007
It would lower intake temp if there were enough dwell time, I've already stated that a few milliseconds isn't enough time for that thermal transfer to take place at such a small temperature displacement.
What Fred's homework addresses is his claim that there is enough energy in the air charge to change the state of the water injected, given enough time/distance. I let him have his fantasyland length of pipe, as well as unlimited time so everything can go into thermal equilibrium. If he can crunch those numbers, he'll be ready to move onto the more advanced topic I outlined in the previous paragraph.
Fred's basically an intelligent guy who's never learned mental discipline, typical of an Asperger's kid who can rarely (rawrly?) focus on something other than their obsessive schism. It's time for him to stop arguing all over the place, follow one aspect of the argument out to a conclusion, and if he still disagrees on any other aspect we can focus on that. Ad nauseam.
What Fred's homework addresses is his claim that there is enough energy in the air charge to change the state of the water injected, given enough time/distance. I let him have his fantasyland length of pipe, as well as unlimited time so everything can go into thermal equilibrium. If he can crunch those numbers, he'll be ready to move onto the more advanced topic I outlined in the previous paragraph.
Fred's basically an intelligent guy who's never learned mental discipline, typical of an Asperger's kid who can rarely (rawrly?) focus on something other than their obsessive schism. It's time for him to stop arguing all over the place, follow one aspect of the argument out to a conclusion, and if he still disagrees on any other aspect we can focus on that. Ad nauseam.
10-01-2007, 02:02 AM
#109
3.0 BAR
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,631
Re: Water Injection 2007
Originally Posted by fe3tcourier
i realise it makes "my" situation worse... but i'm about accuracy, not whether i'm right or wrong.
never argued that. just that under the right (ie, wrong) circumstances, it could reduce intake temps. by some not insignficant amount. was that my original wording? thats what i meant anyway. maybe 10C or something. some amount not huge, but worth having...
the low quality of meat in the UK has turned my sister into one of those. i'm working on turning her back. from what friends of mine that have been to the states and canada say (including a professional chef) she would have become one there too. he in particular accurately summed it up as "in nz you buy organic because its a luxury, over there (canada) you buy it because you have no choice." i have found the same thing here in england. the food is no where near as good as home in terms of just off the shelf supermarket crap. if you pay though, you can eat well. moral of the story, i understand, and i wouldnt make you. still, if you show up, get in touch.
i was semi hinting at the ineffectiveness of other comments as made by jd, bd, ososlo, etc.
never argued that. just that under the right (ie, wrong) circumstances, it could reduce intake temps. by some not insignficant amount. was that my original wording? thats what i meant anyway. maybe 10C or something. some amount not huge, but worth having...
the low quality of meat in the UK has turned my sister into one of those. i'm working on turning her back. from what friends of mine that have been to the states and canada say (including a professional chef) she would have become one there too. he in particular accurately summed it up as "in nz you buy organic because its a luxury, over there (canada) you buy it because you have no choice." i have found the same thing here in england. the food is no where near as good as home in terms of just off the shelf supermarket crap. if you pay though, you can eat well. moral of the story, i understand, and i wouldnt make you. still, if you show up, get in touch.
i was semi hinting at the ineffectiveness of other comments as made by jd, bd, ososlo, etc.
DID YOU JUST CALL ME A ------?
10-01-2007, 04:48 AM
#110
1.5 BAR
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 752
Re: Water Injection 2007
Originally Posted by bigdaddyvtec
DID YOU JUST CALL ME A african american?
as for not doing the equation that i said i would when i said i would...
wasnt aware there was a big rush on it... still have all the tabs with data open in my firefox with an uptime of 8 days... i might get there eventually if i can be bothered.
furthermore, it was 3krpm, 100% and ANY psi. twit.
fred.
