jarebear667

loving the car! what are your air intake temps and are you seeing any sort of knock with out an intercooler?
im finishing up my '90 galant gsx swap and thinking about running e85 on this car too. but my last one (honda) had an intercooler. but if i can go without it would be amazing and simple. since the car is not getting its front bumper hacked. and im using the 14b for now.. until i get parts gathered for the .60/.63 garret. need to get this done for winter fun!

curtis

Ok just finished much research on these and have found 67 lbs a minute in more than one location, and also found on the holset site the high pressure ratio compressors get cast Ti for the material. No casting number or anything on that listed.

There's a compressor map over on dsm tuners (Thread title holset page 4 ) its on about page 26 or so. It has the HE351CW and two over ploted HX35 and HY35 on the same map. Don't let the numbers throw you there using kg sec mega pascals so multiply by .7559 yadda yadda to get lbs a minute

So far I've spent more reading on this stuff than I have been fabricating, I will say to the guys wanting one of these for a non dsm/GVR4 go to the dodge dealer and pop the hood of a truck. These are probably the most advanced thing to hit the market in a while, pictures don't do these things justice and pictures don't show the mass of these things. Figure a 9 x 9 chunk of lead under the hood.

Shipping weight of this was 65 lbs so the car is getting not only a fabricated front engine mount for clearance but also some supports or bracing to hold up this monster.

Tech stuff to follow from me after new years.


One quick thing whats the deal on removal of the silencer, has anyone saw proof of a performance loss on these compared to no loss on the older 5.9 cummins units. Cause I'm all about the whistle... and shouldn't be hard to just drill out 3 steel pins.

aero

I've seen IAT's get up to the vicinity of 200 deg F, at 14-16 lbs of boost and ~60 deg f ambient temps. I've heard no knock so far using a det can like the one in this thread.
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/...?topic=78720.0
I know I'm giving up a lot of power due to air density even though the E85 helps. I'm planning on a air/water I/C this spring after I get it running again. I don't know enough about it. I do think the CAN bus functionality on the MS2 isn't working at this point. I don't know much about CAN Bus, but some people have mentioned differing communications so its not universal.

Since darkhorizon has logged ~60lb/min on the 56mm 7 blade HX35 I have a feeling 67lb/min isn't too hard to believe for me with a 60mm 7 blade compressor.

Proof of it no, people on the dodge forums say it slows spool. Someone needs to do some testing and logs to find out for sure. I love the whistle too. You should try running this thing with no exhaust, at low boost before the VGT opens its crazy loud whistle from the turbine side but nearly no exhaust noise.

curtis

Aero
I remember you asked some where for cm to ar cross reference.

Here goes
These are Mitsubishi to Mitsubishi cross references. Garrett's/ Holset's/Schwitzer's/Borg Warner's may not apply so don't quote me on any of this. But all of these I would guess are rather close.
I added in 3cm-5cm and 19cm-25cm with simple math from the original list I got.
Going to take off like a bullet and I'll feel like Chuck Yeager in the bell x1 up top


MHI Turbine housing areas:

3 cm2 = 0.14 A/R
4 cm2 = 0.23 A/R
5 cm2 = 0.32 A/R
6 cm2 = 0.41 A/R
7 cm2 = 0.49 A/R
8 cm2 = 0.57 A/R
9 cm2 = 0.65 A/R
10 cm2 = 0.73 A/R
11 cm2 = 0.81 A/R
12 cm2 = 0.89 A/R
14 cm2 = 0.97 A/R
15 cm2 = 1.05 A/R
16 cm2 = 1.13 A/R
17 cm2 = 1.29 A/R
19 cm2 = 1.37 A/R
20 cm2 = 1.45 A/R
21 cm2 = 1.53 A/R
22 cm2 = 1.61 A/R
23 cm2 = 1.69 A/R
24 cm2 = 1.77 A/R
25 cm2 = 1.85 A/R

Now I also found this it shows in cfm then after some math gives 67 lbs a min. But this is for a he351cw don't know if its the same wheel as the he351ve that were talking about but still 880 cfm is nothing to balk at. I loved the s362 bullseye I had and only ran her a short time butafter reading the thread below I know I've took the correct step. I like my new prom date, I think she'll put out.

Now don't just stop at the first graph read all 5 pages. His guy shows comparison for just about everything and also on a bore and a stroke change. This is probably the best thread I've seen in a long time.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3980360

fe3tcourier

Inertia of the air :-)

Correct, the physical format is the same, and the low level data format is the same, but what you carry over it is entirely up to you.

What we need are specs or datalogs of what is on that bus in an OEM configuration aligned with other parameters like boost, rpm, tps, position of actuator if possible etc.

With that stuff you could use any CAN MCU to control it with the right software. There are at least 3 guys on diyefi with good PID knowledge who will be writing a generic PID controller that would be perfect for this. Then all you need is some code to send the instructions to the box and/or receive position info back.

MS only has one CAN controller, and it is working, but no one is using it as there is nothing to control with it yet... The TA card we are using for FreeEMS has two CAN controllers exposed with driver chips and a bunch more available to use on the CPU side. I'm intending one will be used for a FreeEMS protocol network for expansion etc, but the other is free to code up into something like this. Doing it on the TA card based on my code = the code stays free, doing it in ms = anybodies guess. They say your work on their code is their property, but I doubt the courts would have a bar of it. Still, best to avoid it and use a TA card as an overkill boost controller for now. Later when I get my ---- fully together you can also run the engine with it :-)

I hope that clears up the CAN stuff.

If someone gets me enough details I could have a crack at coding for it. It shouldn't be too hard, but you never know...

Fred.

Tom-Guy

Inertia nothing, the turbo does work even before it creates positive pressure.

fe3tcourier

I agree.

aero

I hope we can find someone with ane of these trucks who is willing to do a little poking around. Those numbers aren't accurate except for a given turbine wheel. Holset ratings are for nozzle area, a/r ratio includes the turbine wheel radius in the calculation.

I've read through that thread before. Its interesting but he makes some assumptions that make no sense sometimes.

For anyone looking at the turbo here is a crude drawing with the flange measurments. Remember 2 of the holes are blind threaded holes, one threaded and through, and one non threaded through hole.

KRRZ350

1st let me say thanks to you aero, not just for pioneering but posting up information also.

Here's some pics of my he351ve that I JUNKED. I got it off e-bay, the slider vane was very gunked up and sticking, as is probably to be expected with all of the used ones that are/have/will be up for sale. The thought crossed my mind of doing a rebuild on it but I planned to just pull the slider assembly out & clean the vanes. Well my suspicion turned out to be correct, you can take the whole assembly out but can't re-attach the actuator part inside the chra without dissasembling it. Well apparantly, and big lesson learned for me here, without heating the compressor nut it snapped right off, at least I'm presuming that it wouldn't have snapped if I put some heat on it.

Anyways, here's some pics, I looked like a damn chimney sweep afterwards, the inner and outer rings were locked up and sooted to ---- even all inside the land of the inner one. It was so caked i,n I wetsanded most parts with 320 and brake cleaner, used alot of brakecleaner, and a toothbrush in some parts. I was trying not just to be as careful as I could, but I was also still hoping/assuming I would be able to reassemble the actuator lever without tearing into the chra, otherwise I would have used a fine & soft brass wirebrush mounted in a dremel for alot of the housing side or even my bead blaster. Anyways, I got it all clean and functioning smooth but was unable to assemble it without taking the chra apart.

Well lesson learned on the shaft, I called the local holset dealer to inqure about a rebuild kit now that I was in there, and he looked into it and called me back saying that it was to new and he couldn't get any parts for it, don't know if it's bullshit but I might as well try dodge at least for the shaft just for ***** and giggles but I bet it's through the roof.

If anybody want's/needs more info or any measurements off these wheels let me know. Also, Aero, let me dig up the pics from the limited repair info from Holset, that stupid 10 page pdf. You may have seen it, but some of the larger holset vgt's like the 551 use a manual diaphgram, but it looks more advanced/complex, I'm thinking that might be another option for us as well.

aero

Thanks, and glad you found some of it useful.

I'm glad you put up the pics of the compressor back, the part number might be useful to some people. The other pictures are nice. haven't seen one apart before.

Which way did you try taking the nut off? Every holset I've messed with is left handed threads. The picture is a bit too blurry to tell which way it is for sure, but it looks left handed. . It shouldn't seize since its mostly stainless etc.

I've used a HE431V that used a pneumatic actuator. We retrofitted it to a 8.3 cummins. It has a wastegate type actuator, but works off brake air and in reverse. Higher pressure closes the VGT. It provides a failsafe if it blows a line etc, that way it goes to low boost rather than overspeeding. We removed the actuator and put allthread on it since it was on a combine that sees constant load. Spool wasn't an issue as long as we could set it where we wanted it.