fe3tcourier

shelby, ricardo, vizard, corky, xxx yyy zzz etc etc etc.

have you heard of freeze spray? starts off at 20c, ends up at much much lower... thats the same principle that we are talking about, (ok, not necessarily the same, but at the least similar, ie change of density vs change of state)

how about wind chill factor?

this depends on the three things you mentioned earlier (that we agree on) what we fail to agree on here is whether you get a change in air temperature (NOT DENSITY) from it. i will continue to maintain that there is a difference there (regardless of whether it makes a measurable power difference) until i prove otherwise to myself with good logic and reason.

i skimmed those (ancient) references and didnt see anything that shows that what you are saying is true. i may take the time to have a more indepth read of them before i post again, just for your benefit.

I'll keep my "incorrect" image for now thanks.

bigdaddyvtec

ya id think that there would be a temp change... (compounded by a methonal mix)...... Exactly how significant... Im not all that sure, anyone done any iat tests wioth and without misting

Tom-Guy

Exactly, wind chill factor. The tiny fast moving particles absorb an unmeasurably small amount of heat when they come in contact with your skin. Your skin loses temperature over many seconds, not noticeably for at least a minute. A minute is not nanoseconds, so the wind's temperature is not changed (either significantly or measurably), however any stationary objects in it's path... or in the path of any airborne droplets in the case of water injection... become noticeably cooled aka wet thermometer syndrome aka droplets forming in the combustion chamber and directly cooling it.

Since you lack either, how about resorting to math and experiements and datalogs that are submitted for peer review, like the rest of the world?


That's awesome, because I was directly quoting them, and they are exactly what you will find in ICE texts.

omgbossis21

Here is a long read about it if you like :
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=752282

I just order a water/meth injection kit and expecting it soon. Going to see what kind of difference it makes firsthand. As mentioned before it increases your knock limit, how useful is that? Well if you tune for it its can make considerable more power. Add timing? How about running even leaner (some as lean at 13:1)? Of course I wouldnt tune for it unless you had a protection feature like dropping boost in case of nozzle failure but even so.... I seen someones charts around where they logged their egts before/after water injection and they definitely dropped. We've all probably seen charts with dyno increases and decreases with water or meth or both injections. Every car is different, some will take well to it while some wont. Personally I know a guy with a 401whp hyundai tiburon v6 with no intercooler, only water meth injection. Daily driven for along time and regularly beat on. I dont doubt it drops intake temps, I do believe it has to be considerably hot in order to do it though (in this guys case no intercooler....). I'll speak with firsthand experience next time hopefully...

fe3tcourier

another ruined thread... side discussion begins...

aparently you dont understand wind chill factor. your skin is wet. you are constantly evaporating water. the instant that wind moves past you, you feel the cold from it evaporating that water faster. if your thermometer soaking theory is right, and i have no doubt that that would occur, and make measurements difficult to take, then its not the temperature of the water thats doing it, its the evaporation of the water thats landed as further air comes past. change of state uses a LOT of heat energy. its endothermic. a lot.

once again, i dont expect the charge to be 2K, but maybe (inlet - 20)K or so... or less drop/higher temp, but something, and not immeasurable, except in the case where the thermometer is wet. you could measure it by only spraying so much that it all evaporated before the sensor, then the true temperature would be known, and i could be proved right. you could do it with a furnace blowing hot air through a longish pipe, measure temp, inject sfa water as a FINE mist, measure again after its all gone into proper vapour, and you would have your answer. such a rig belongs in a lab, not my drive, so i wont be bothering just to prove a point to you. if you measured it at 10 feet, you could interpolate back to 2 feet to find how much energy was used. you could create some functions that adequately described the surface area of the droplets as they shrunk from evaporation, and another function to show the propensity of the water to evaporate.

LOL, thats pretty funny, but not at all true.

that will clearly show when i read through them then...

Schwitzer Turbo

I think this is the Most comprehesive site with regards to water injection im pretty sure all question can be answerd if this site is Leeched dry... http://www.waterinjection.info/

What i can tell you is that Water Injection Tuning and Water&Methonal Tuning is two TOTALLY different ball games...

fe3tcourier

awesome, something constructive!

http://www.not2fast.com/thermo/water...opt_mass.shtml

this is something from eric the creator of the ms tuning software many of us have used megatune.

as much as i hate megatune, hes a switched on dude, and that is the sort of thing i'm expecting...

not ---- loads, but not nothing....

fred.

Tom-Guy

And intake charge which is exposed to water droplets for nanoseconds constantly evaporates absolutely nothing. You keep making my point. I repeat, the combustion chamber, or anything that experiences any sustained amount of water passing across it, is what is cooled.


No, measurements aren't difficult to take. If the intake charge was cooled appreciably then power would come up measurably as cooler denser air fills the combustion chamber with more airmass.


Proving whether or not water injection chills the intake charge is very much a simple thing to do with garden variety tuenarboi tools and a dyno. Quit making excuses for why you won't read the literature, or apply yourself to performing a simple test that I and other have already done. I've got a LOT more experience than you with tuning cars, dynos, water injection, and holy ---- all three put together, Fred. I've always been more than happy to share my insight with no pricetags or consumer ----- advertisements involved, back up the ---- I say with verifiable referrences, etc, but you're going on ZERO information, ZERO experience, and an erroneous opinion that's worth ZERO. Arguing with you is like arguing with a telephone pole.

fe3tcourier

i could say the same thing, and heres the reason :

we are arguing at cross purposes.

i say "it will be cooled some small but real amount"

then you say "it wont be cooled enough to matter"

...