need help with food (protein)
01-31-2005, 07:05 PM
#91
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,612
Re:need help with food (protein)
here's what you need kain, fo real though.
http://www.heightmax.com/
http://www.heightmax.com/
02-01-2005, 11:54 PM
#93
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 479
Re:need help with food (protein)
Originally Posted by Steve-O
Originally Posted by InfernoSoul
Originally Posted by Steve-O
i was just always under the impression that monounsaturated nut oil like those found in natural peanut butter, fiber and carbs in bananas and maltodextrin protien were okay. might be diff for the scenario i guess.
he asked about cost effective protien i believe and that shake will fill him up, give him the protien and energy he needs without draining his wallet at a health food store for designer wheys like Prolab. ive purchased the 10lb tub of that and it's $$$$$$$$$
im not a bodybuilder or an expert on the same so by all means correct me where needed.
you want solid food pre workout. its slower digesting, unlike the powdered food you listed before.
also, your shake does'nt have enough carbs for pre workout.
i get 80-100g low GI (ie slow burning) carbs, 1 - 1.5hrs before workout. be it wholegrain bread, oatmeal, brown rice etc.
moderate protein from whole foods too - so not whey, but fish or meat or eggs or chicken etc. 20-25g
post workout you need a stack of simple carbs, preferably in water for faster digestion. a 50/50 combo of maltodextrin and dextrose (aka corn sugar/glucose) is ideal... though i just have dextrose. 80-100g of it.
and then whey (also in water) because its fast digesting. around 40g protein worth of it which is like 2 typical scoops.
i dont bother with fats (you throw in peanut butter) for pre/post workout. fats are too slow digesting pre workout and definitely not needed PWO
1 banana has ~30g carbs. this is why a banana is no good. 30 isn't enough. besides - these are carbs from fructose (fruit sugar), which is not ideal for PWO recovery and insulin spiking.
that's good info inferno.
just wondering if this routine would apply to someone like me who follows more of a men's health cover model diet and strength training program rather than that for a bodybuilder?
where would i make changes for a plan that involves lean mass but more strength and endurance for biking? my goal is go gain strength and some corresponding mass but i dont want to get huge because a) ive always been a hardgainer and b) the bigger i get it becomes increasingly difficult to lug this frame up a hill for a few kilometers on a mountain bike (even after the fact im riding a $4000 lightweight racing rig :P).
hope im not threadjackin here. just interested in the info and maybe someone else readin might find it useful too.
maybe you dont need as high quantities of carbs etc as i listed, but your body still needs to use em regardless.
02-01-2005, 11:59 PM
#94
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 479
Re:need help with food (protein)
Originally Posted by GiNuWiNe
You DO not i repeat DO NOT need whey protein at all to gain muscle (i'm talking about the supplement). For a pretty little guy id' say i'm pretty toned. I max 95lbs over my weight. Not saying your not sayin the truth but just because other people say something doesn't automatically make them wrong. I'd like to see a picture of the results you got from all of your factual information. It's common sense that you need protein from lean foods such as chicken breast, etc. And in case you didn't notice i was joking about the beer part. Here's a pic of me from about 4-6months ago i can't remember lol.
I'm in no way huge. But seriously you don't need supplements to gain muscle.. The only reason i'd ever use supplements would be if i reached a pinnacle that i've haven't been able to pass. Or if i have to.. for instance if i have to gain mass for football or something like that. Right now i'm trying to stay natural.
I'm in no way huge. But seriously you don't need supplements to gain muscle.. The only reason i'd ever use supplements would be if i reached a pinnacle that i've haven't been able to pass. Or if i have to.. for instance if i have to gain mass for football or something like that. Right now i'm trying to stay natural.
you're right, you dont NEED - NEED whey protein, but if you DONT have it you are GREATLY missing out and i can't emphasise that enough.
i dont even consider whey a supplement. it is a core food for all bodybuilders, and should be for those wanting to gain muscle as well.
maybe if you had some you would'nt be so skinny haha.
go flash your 11" forearms elsewhere
supplements dont do diddly squat unless your diet is good anyway which $100 says yours isn't so i'm sure they wont help you get over any pinnacles
02-02-2005, 07:50 AM
#95
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,075
Re:need help with food (protein)
If you decide to get protein from eggs only eat the whites cause the whole egg is fattening.
Whole Egg(Large-50grams):
Calories: 73
Total Fat: 5g
Saturated Fat: 2g
Cholesterol: 211mg
Sodium: 70mg
Total Carbohydrate: 0mg
Dietary Fiber: 0g
Sugars: 0g
Protein: 6g
Vitamin A: 5%
Calcium: 3%
Vitamin C: 0%
Iron: 5%
Whites Only Egg(Large-33grams):
Calories: 17
Total Fat: 0g
Saturated Fat: 0g
Cholesterol: 0mg
Sodium: 55mg
Total Carbohydrate: 0mg
Dietary Fiber: 0g
Sugars: 0g
Protein: 4g
Vitamin A: 0%
Calcium: 0%
Vitamin C: 0%
Iron: 0%
Egg whites yummy!
Whole Egg(Large-50grams):
Calories: 73
Total Fat: 5g
Saturated Fat: 2g
Cholesterol: 211mg
Sodium: 70mg
Total Carbohydrate: 0mg
Dietary Fiber: 0g
Sugars: 0g
Protein: 6g
Vitamin A: 5%
Calcium: 3%
Vitamin C: 0%
Iron: 5%
Whites Only Egg(Large-33grams):
Calories: 17
Total Fat: 0g
Saturated Fat: 0g
Cholesterol: 0mg
Sodium: 55mg
Total Carbohydrate: 0mg
Dietary Fiber: 0g
Sugars: 0g
Protein: 4g
Vitamin A: 0%
Calcium: 0%
Vitamin C: 0%
Iron: 0%
Egg whites yummy!
02-02-2005, 07:59 AM
#96
3.0 BAR
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 5,042
Re:need help with food (protein)
The differance between whey and natural proteins in food it the ability for the body to absorb them. You always want to get things in teh most natural way.
This is just like vitamins in foods being more useful than ones synthesizedand taken in tablet form.
You will benefit from whey protein and supplements, but they cannot compare to eating the real ----.
for example a shake and a chicken breast both containing 22g of protein. The chicken will give you a larger about of consumed protein, simply because it is more absorbable than the shake. But both wil work.
This is just like vitamins in foods being more useful than ones synthesizedand taken in tablet form.
You will benefit from whey protein and supplements, but they cannot compare to eating the real ----.
for example a shake and a chicken breast both containing 22g of protein. The chicken will give you a larger about of consumed protein, simply because it is more absorbable than the shake. But both wil work.
02-03-2005, 12:40 AM
#97
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 479
Re:need help with food (protein)
Originally Posted by BiggMike
If you decide to get protein from eggs only eat the whites cause the whole egg is fattening.
they aren't fattening :/
egg yolks are a great source of minerals. remove fats from other foods to compensate, and eat more yolks =)
02-03-2005, 12:41 AM
#98
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 479
Re:need help with food (protein)
Originally Posted by Cray91
The differance between whey and natural proteins in food it the ability for the body to absorb them. You always want to get things in teh most natural way.
This is just like vitamins in foods being more useful than ones synthesizedand taken in tablet form.
You will benefit from whey protein and supplements, but they cannot compare to eating the real ----.
for example a shake and a chicken breast both containing 22g of protein. The chicken will give you a larger about of consumed protein, simply because it is more absorbable than the shake. But both wil work.
This is just like vitamins in foods being more useful than ones synthesizedand taken in tablet form.
You will benefit from whey protein and supplements, but they cannot compare to eating the real ----.
for example a shake and a chicken breast both containing 22g of protein. The chicken will give you a larger about of consumed protein, simply because it is more absorbable than the shake. But both wil work.
the protein from whey is far more absorbable than the chicken.
it's only because the chicken is slow digesting, that makes it useful.
you would absorb more protein from whey, end of story.
02-03-2005, 06:55 AM
#100
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 0
Re:need help with food (protein)
heres an article on creatine 
Title: Performance and muscle fiber adaptations to creatine supplementation and heavy resistance training.
Researchers: Volek JS, Duncan ND, Mazzetti SA, Staron RS, Putukian M, Gomez AL, Pearson DR, Fink WJ, Kraemer WJ.
Institution: Department of Kinesiology/Center for Sports Medicine, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park 16802, USA. Source: Med Sci Sports Exerc 1999 Aug;31(
:1147-56 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut
Summary: The purpose of this study was to examine the effect of creatine supplementation in conjunction with resistance training on muscle fiber hypertrophy and muscle creatine accumulation.
Methods: Nineteen healthy resistance-trained men were matched and then randomly assigned in a double-blind fashion to either a creatine or placebo group. Periodized heavy resistance training was performed for 12 wk. Creatine or placebo capsules were consumed (25 g x d(-1)) for 1 wk followed by a maintenance dose (5 g x d(-1)) for the remainder of the training period.
Results: After 12 wk, significant increases in body mass and fat-free mass were greater in creatine (6.3% and 6.3%, respectively) than placebo (3.6% and 3.1%, respectively) subjects. After 12 wk, increases in bench press and squat were greater in creatine (24% and 32%, respectively) than placebo (16% and 24%, respectively) subjects. Compared with placebo subjects, creatine subjects demonstrated significantly greater increases in Type I (35% vs 11%), IIA (36% vs 15%), and IIAB (35% vs 6%) muscle fiber cross-sectional areas. Muscle total creatine concentrations were unchanged in placebo subjects. Muscle creatine was significantly elevated after 1 wk in creatine subjects (22%), and values remained significantly greater than placebo subjects after 12 wk. Average volume lifted in the bench press during training was significantly greater in creatine subjects during weeks 5-8. No negative side effects to the supplementation were reported.
Conclusion: Creatine supplementation enhanced fat-free mass, physical performance, and muscle morphology in response to heavy resistance training.
Discussion: Creatine is a naturally occurring compound made within our own bodies. It is also found in many foods we eat, especially meat. Creatine monohydrate has been used as a dietary supplement for at least a decade now, though it was first discovered nearly 170 years ago.
People seem to want to pigeonhole creatine into some sort of hit-or-miss water-retention supplement. Creatine is so much more than that. Creatine is truly one of the greatest supplements there is for building muscle and strength.
There was significant weight gain in this study. The creatine group "loaded" creatine the first 7 days. This was followed by 5 grams per day thereafter. One would expect a significantly greater weight gain the first week over placebo simply because of the well known effect of creatine loading on acute intracellular water retention (cell volumizing). But if this was the only way creatine lead to weight gain, this accelerated weight gain should have tapered off by the end of the first week, then stayed parallel to the placebo group through week 12. Instead, the acceleration of weight gain continued throughout the entire study period reaching nearly 10 pounds of lean mass by week 12! The placebo group gained only 4—in the same period. The creatine group literally doubled their muscle growth by using creatine. This means that creatine continued to effect lean mass gains long after its initial effect on water levels. This increase in body weight was then demonstrated to be true hypertrophy of muscle fibers.
In this study they were able to show, that in trained subjects, creatine supplementation increased muscle mass by nearly twice as much as placebo. Type I muscle fibers increased 35% with creatine but only 11% without it. Likewise, type IIA increased 36% compared to 15%. And finally, Type IIAB fibers increased 35% with creatine supplementation compared to only 6% without it. So on average, creatine supplementation produced 3 times the percentage of muscle fiber growth as placebo. You'd have to be a fool to ignore that!
cliff notes = So on average, creatine supplementation produced 3 times the percentage of muscle fiber growth as placebo
Title: Performance and muscle fiber adaptations to creatine supplementation and heavy resistance training.
Researchers: Volek JS, Duncan ND, Mazzetti SA, Staron RS, Putukian M, Gomez AL, Pearson DR, Fink WJ, Kraemer WJ.
Institution: Department of Kinesiology/Center for Sports Medicine, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park 16802, USA. Source: Med Sci Sports Exerc 1999 Aug;31(
:1147-56 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut Summary: The purpose of this study was to examine the effect of creatine supplementation in conjunction with resistance training on muscle fiber hypertrophy and muscle creatine accumulation.
Methods: Nineteen healthy resistance-trained men were matched and then randomly assigned in a double-blind fashion to either a creatine or placebo group. Periodized heavy resistance training was performed for 12 wk. Creatine or placebo capsules were consumed (25 g x d(-1)) for 1 wk followed by a maintenance dose (5 g x d(-1)) for the remainder of the training period.
Results: After 12 wk, significant increases in body mass and fat-free mass were greater in creatine (6.3% and 6.3%, respectively) than placebo (3.6% and 3.1%, respectively) subjects. After 12 wk, increases in bench press and squat were greater in creatine (24% and 32%, respectively) than placebo (16% and 24%, respectively) subjects. Compared with placebo subjects, creatine subjects demonstrated significantly greater increases in Type I (35% vs 11%), IIA (36% vs 15%), and IIAB (35% vs 6%) muscle fiber cross-sectional areas. Muscle total creatine concentrations were unchanged in placebo subjects. Muscle creatine was significantly elevated after 1 wk in creatine subjects (22%), and values remained significantly greater than placebo subjects after 12 wk. Average volume lifted in the bench press during training was significantly greater in creatine subjects during weeks 5-8. No negative side effects to the supplementation were reported.
Conclusion: Creatine supplementation enhanced fat-free mass, physical performance, and muscle morphology in response to heavy resistance training.
Discussion: Creatine is a naturally occurring compound made within our own bodies. It is also found in many foods we eat, especially meat. Creatine monohydrate has been used as a dietary supplement for at least a decade now, though it was first discovered nearly 170 years ago.
People seem to want to pigeonhole creatine into some sort of hit-or-miss water-retention supplement. Creatine is so much more than that. Creatine is truly one of the greatest supplements there is for building muscle and strength.
There was significant weight gain in this study. The creatine group "loaded" creatine the first 7 days. This was followed by 5 grams per day thereafter. One would expect a significantly greater weight gain the first week over placebo simply because of the well known effect of creatine loading on acute intracellular water retention (cell volumizing). But if this was the only way creatine lead to weight gain, this accelerated weight gain should have tapered off by the end of the first week, then stayed parallel to the placebo group through week 12. Instead, the acceleration of weight gain continued throughout the entire study period reaching nearly 10 pounds of lean mass by week 12! The placebo group gained only 4—in the same period. The creatine group literally doubled their muscle growth by using creatine. This means that creatine continued to effect lean mass gains long after its initial effect on water levels. This increase in body weight was then demonstrated to be true hypertrophy of muscle fibers.
In this study they were able to show, that in trained subjects, creatine supplementation increased muscle mass by nearly twice as much as placebo. Type I muscle fibers increased 35% with creatine but only 11% without it. Likewise, type IIA increased 36% compared to 15%. And finally, Type IIAB fibers increased 35% with creatine supplementation compared to only 6% without it. So on average, creatine supplementation produced 3 times the percentage of muscle fiber growth as placebo. You'd have to be a fool to ignore that!
cliff notes = So on average, creatine supplementation produced 3 times the percentage of muscle fiber growth as placebo
