themadhatter

I love the mk1 mr2 its a nice car just no room in the engine bay, being a fellow toy fan and owner (mk3 supra ftw lol) i know it can be tricky trying to work with toyota electronics. Its a nice setup you have the only issue i can see is the engine manegment why not try a safc or somthing like megasquirt maybe even the new pigy back aem has coming out

86meesta2

Well as I see it, only running 6 psi didnt warrant me to go and spend another $350--$400 (I'd want a wideband as well). Eventually when I do build a more serious turbo engine, with high boost-friendly internals, block, etc, then absolutely will it be necessary and ill go and drop the dough

evo_lucian

If im not mistaken , the safc doesnt work on the afm 4age, his best bet would be megasquirt or emanage, but getting a hold of that will cost you a pretty penny. i have alot more engine management options because my car is MAP not afm. Fmu ftw. How is the top end power with the t25 on the 4age ?

evo_lucian

:P

Toysrme

you are mistaken.
Gen I denso afm's run a positive scale (0v idle 5v 100%) genII denso afm's run a reverse scale (0v 100% 5v idle)
it's the frequency based KV sensors that SAFC's can't handle. Those were only installed in afew M block's, and the early UZ engines.






there is no reason to SAFC a car with a cogged vane flap AFM. The AFM's have internal bypass screws that set the A/F mixture at base idle, and the cog is atleast as accurate as any SAFC / SAFC-II is while changing the mixture.
Plus, Toyota only used AFM's on OBD-I vehicles, which do not carry their single o2 sensor fuel tirm into open-loop. meaning you can richen, or lean them out a fuckload & not have a problem on the stock ECU. Provided that you are in open loop when you need a drastic change. which itself is very, very easy to do. feed the ECU a 4.5-5v signal on the VTA input (throttle position sensor angle), and it will immediately assume you're at the 75-80% WOT required to trip the ECU into open loop.
Provided your AFM is not a leaking son of a bitch. I greatly preffer blowing the turbo through the AFM, letting the stock management see exactly what is going in the engine. It's just abit more accurate.





e-manage's suck. they're expencive & require upgrades out the ***. If you're going to piggyback. Perfect Power SMT line. Less costly than the equivilant model E-manage's, more features & they roll 100% complete for all features right out of the box.








Careful on the A blocks. They're pretty shitty under boost. It'd be the Honda equivilant of rocking a D with rods out of a B.

Tom-Guy

So they are good for 300 whp?

Toysrme

ahhhhhhhh hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
JD remember we're talking toyota. that means we rate what you can do reliably. not run 2-3 times on a dyno & then go pop on the way home lol
he has a bluetop
that means pissy pistons, rods, and lots of vibrations b/c A blocks don't have balance shafts.

if he had a 4a-gze (the supercharged 4a-gze) and did a turbo swap. ya you could see 300whp out of it without a rebuild on a dyno without any extremely tuning effort. but you'd never keep it together like that.









anyways... mr2's are ugly, very fun cars to drive. and like we've talked about alot before. you can easily weld to cast, it simply requires gradual pre heat (interpass temp) & post-heat to keep it from cracking. AWS says not to inspect it for 48 hours as it can still crack out to about that point.

Hitchhikkr

Incorrect. The Karmaan Vortex sensors are easily scaled with a SAFC. MANY 7m supra's running around using them.



This is only partially true....
Denso stole their flapper afm system from bosch...and scaled it down for cheapness. Blue top 4age's are BATCH fire injection. As such, denso saw fit to program their ecus with only a few actual fuel maps, and use coolant temp, afm, and 02 (in closed loop) to compensate for conditions.
You cant scale larger injectors with a safc on blue top 4a's. Been there. Done that.

Stock engine managment sucks. What in the hell makes you think its able to properly control larger injectors while blowing thru an Flapper AFM? You do realize that once an flapper type AFM reaches its maximum physical opening, that the computer ignores it and continues with its pre-programed N/A map right Did you also know that a lightly modded 4AGE can max its AFM out No, it is not more accurate.
I do agree that emanage sucks. Havent tried SMT yet.

What do you mean they're shitty under boost? WTF is that supposed to mean? Last time I checked, LS rods are pretty damn beefy in a D, not cost effective, but they do work well...
Yeah...youve never experienced a boosted 4A have you The head gasket is the weakness on any bluetop...
4AGE is a pretty good design for boost, Iron block, VERY good flowing head for its age, cheap parts all make it something I wouldnt mind having.


You are an idiot arent you Show me a reliable turbo car and I will show you a liar.

The stock rods, pistons are plenty strong enough for boost.
Last time I checked, D's and B's dont have balace shafts either moron...Engine vibration at stock Rpm's isnt going to kill a 4A.
GZE blocks are overrated, and oil squirters are next to worthless.
There are 2 turbo 4A's running around here and both have their orignal engines and are driven everyday.

This is HMT...who gives a ---- what the manifold looks like as long as it doesnt leak.
(bluetop manis are prone to cracking at the egr inlet however)

Tom-Guy

Funny, the cars I tune hold together fine. Reliable? Hell, no, but the engine isn't falling out of any of them short of operator error. Refer to what Robert just told you about any turbo car being reliable - I've seem my share of Toyota failures so don't try to blow smoke up my ***.

There is a difference rating an engine by what it can do if you run a cookie cutter set of piggybacks on top of stock pieces and actually tuning a particular setup. The first is a method by which Toyota idiots get identical and wholly mediochre results, the second is what many pretend to do but few manage.

Fist yourself. You're just a skinny late teenage kid with testosterone deficiency... take your message forum derived knowledge and shove it up your ***. I've paid my dues, you can pipe down about what is or isn't possible when I disagree.

Toysrme

lmao fist yourself first JD as you defiantely don't know everything either. that or go inject your nuts with some estrogen to calm your negroid rage down
to start with. mid 20's, and i do happen to know a good deal about the US Toyota lineup going back to the mid 80's... *probably* because unlike youself I didn't spend all my time rubbing my dick on cars at the house. i got out, went through T-Ten and made a living as a successful toyota mechanic........
yes, i did just learn an safc can do frequency based tuning. besides the point, safc's suck lol




mother ------- dreaming if you think you'll ever make 300whp on a blue top for any length of time without a rebuild. youhave to realize it's a medium accomplishment to make 300whp reliably on a 4a-gze to turbo conversion.................. the easyest way to make 300whp is 4a-gze pistons (or custom) in a 1.8L 7a-fe block with an appropriate GE head.
let that sink in... You'll need pistons, or the most ungodly knock-resistant fuel you can come up with biatch. don't look at the book & think oh these 9.4:1 CR pistons will be perfect fot a turbo... they're not, the entire things are relatively fragile.
you'll be doing insanely well to make 225whp. 180-210 is the norm without swapping gze pistons, or buying a cheap set of JE's. the majority of those only staying together under 200whp. that my friend... isn't anywhere remotely ------- close to 300whp. lmao you'd be setting records at 300 flywheel if it stayed together afew days.








AFA acceptable tuning via blowing through the AFM flap. it's quite easy. i've done it multiple times, on multiple toyota turbo projects, all daily-driven. none experiancing problems, and the largest of which gained more than 2.5x the stock rated power , no management.... gas mileage was appreciably lower cruising, but the car was fine on & off boost.
Here's how you do it:
use a correctly sized fuel pump
use a fuel pressure regulator that will give a corrected LOW base fuel pressure, and the correct amount of pressure rising under boost
trigger open-loop at the onset of boost. (BPS flipping a relay on the VTA signal to supply with ECU's with the VS sensor suppl voltage is perfect)
set the AFM's cog to run the injectors correctly at wide open throttle. pop off the cover for the idle by-pass screw & re-adjust it without the o2 sensor connected until the engine will idle correctly if need be.

by correctly balancing the fuel pressure with the AFM cog. you will achive a fairly descently running setup. atleast as good as most well tuned carbies...


blowing through the AFM will gain you a better responce locating it on your throttlebody, and after the cooler. It also won't matter if you run your dump valve to atmo before the meter. plus... while Toyota ECU's do not make any particularly noteable changes based on the IAT sensor. The ECU will still be able to see your real temps, and that's good. those tiny steps of ignition timing are nice when your knock sensor only operates for about a 1000-1500rpm window...