KLT-MX3

Its working great. I have a full standalone, so i made a new timing table for it. With 9.2:1 compression and 15 psi of boost, I need that 105 octane! pump gas is simply not safe even with running 10-12 degrees total timing, and not near as powerful

Toysrme

Tony Leung's 3.0L v6 turbo camry was running 20-24psi on a GT40R/88 on 10.5:1 CR pistons.
pump gas + water injection.


pump gas ftw

KLT-MX3

E85 is $2.60/gal, 91 octane is $3.55 right now. Its cheaper to run the E85. not a whole lot, but enough. i had water injection on my last motor and it didnt make this much power. it displaces air/fuel in the combustion chamber. it was also a pain in the *** to keep full..

Tom-Guy

Since you need 40-50% more E85 it actually costs a few cents more than premium.


Insignificant.

KLT-MX3

I get 28 mpg on gas, 20 mpg on E85. Cost difference isn't that drastic.

I suppose the reason my old setup with h20 injection didnt work out that well is because it was a pieced together kit i used to replace an intercooler all together, and I was running 17 psi of boost. I was spraying windshield washer fluid (700cc nozzle) and my charge temps were still through the roof (270 degrees) and it would detonate. The more I ran, the more power it lost. It would bog out I was spraying so much fluid and it still couldn't combat the charge temps. that being said, my best time with the car was on that setup. 13.0 @ 110. But I havent had it to the track since, and that was on a different turbo too...

I may set up a kit for the pathfinder though

Tom-Guy

No, you don't understand what I said. For a given mass of air you have to inject 40-50% more E85 than gasoline in order to acheive stoichiometric. You spend about 30-50 cents more in E85 for the stoichiochemic equivalent of a gallon of gasoline at the prices you stated.


You've been reading net bullshit on water injection. I have a sweet Water Injection Myths writeup in the Engine Management forum that you should read. Here, since the search engine sucks I googled it for you:

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/...?topic=48057.0

KLT-MX3

Oh I understand just fine... One gallon of ethanol has 70% of the energy of one gallon of gas. Right now I have a tune for E85 that is 14.7:1 under cruise all the time. I get 20 mpg consistantly with E85 vs. 28 mpg consistantly with gasoline. They are two different tunes I made. The E85 I added ~10 degrees timing across the map. 20/28=71.4% of fuel economy of gasoline. Right now Im paying $2.60/gal for E85 vs. $3.55 for 91 octane. 2.60/3.55=73.23% of cost. In the end, while I burn more, I spend almost the exact same to run 105 octane fuel. So my initial number crunching in my head was wrong and E85 does actually cost more. A few cents more at the current prices, but that's okay with me. It's also much cleaner smelling and since I don't have a cat, stop and go traffic gives me headaches with the exhaust. It works out perfect for me. Ive put 40k miles on this car, and I mainly use it for commuting on the interstate and I keep a close watch on my fuel mileage when Im not boosting. This isn't theory here, but rather my actual recorded mileage
Thanks for the link, but for the record I havent read anything. I had it on my mx3 two years ago and thats my experiences. Under 10 psi it dropped charge temps 70 degrees. Anything over 12 psi I was getting higher and higher until my target boost (17 psi) which pegged out my IAT sensor at 270+ degrees. I had a setup pre turbo and sprayed washer fluid. I had to run 11 degrees total timing or it would detonate. That was on an LM-1 reading 10.5:1 afr's.

With my cheap *** SS auto intercooler setup now it's 120-130 degree charge temps, 28 degrees total timing, 12:1 afr, and 15 psi boost thanks to E85. I scrapped the water injection. Filling the tank was getting to be a pain in the ***, and I burned over 20 gallons of it over the coarse of a year. Since I was running non intercooled, I was having to inject too much to see a temp drop, and the charge temps were too high for my comfort with the boost levels I push. On 5 psi less boost, I'm trapping 4 mph higher now in the 1/4 mile with an intercooler vs. my old setup. I broke 3 pistons when I had the water injection setup, and haven't exactly determined why. I was injecting a SHITLOAD though... 700cc

My setup was never perfected and I never claimed it to be. For my goals, the intercooler setup works just fine, and with the cost of fuel it's no different to me to run E85 vs. 91 octane (7 cents/gallon is nothing to get worked up over when gas is nearing 4/gallon). This car isnt a race car, it's a daily driver..

EDIT: I read through some of that info. Crazy stuff, contrary to popular belief. Im just curious why with my setup, my results were far from great...

Tom-Guy

There's a lot that can go wrong, what you stated as your experiences are incorrect.


For example, this never actually happened. :P


Well...


You've not mentioned anything about how you deduced ideal ignition timing, plug readings, etc. There's a lot going on underhood of a car.

Anyway, I really do like your truck, it looks like an awesome project. I didn't mean to derail your thread so much, just wanted you to be safe and not end up with a pile of work at the end of the day.

HiProfile

E85 burns in such that it can take more timing and leaner mixtures vs straight gaoline, not just based on octane. So you're making power for longer with less gas. You know its not that simple, but it boils down to that. And since cruising uses most of your gas, it becomes a wash. He's also talking a DD car, not a drag car that spends 100% of its gas on the 1320.

btw as for emissions, NOx peaks at 16:1 for gasoline, so don't go all that lean if you get it emission tested.

Toysrme

The problem with E85 in a DD car is that You pay atleast a 30% penalty in raw energy, the fuel consumption is much higher. The fact that the octane rating is higher is useless in a DD.
Bumping compression up from the now modern 11+:1 to 14:1, and re-profiling cams & head porting /vvt systems to fix the charge helps regain power, but to keep it simple, there's not enough to off-set the fact you're still using alot more gas, and not making the same power.

Now you go huge effective CR's, cam/port's to match it in a race engine. Ya, but E85 in DD cars is a joke.




E85 in the majority of the US is MORE expencive that normal gasoline because of it's very low supply. (I have, in all honesty only seen two E85 pumps in my life in Alabama. You go to any corner gas station near any race track, or any Sunco / Phillips, etc. and you can find 100-115 octane pump gas. Expencive, but you can find it.)

Now, if you go to Europe, or parts of South America. E85 - E100 is SIGNIFIGANTLY cheaper than gasoline. We rescently had a discussion of E85 in Europe VS NA in another forum. For the guy in Europe that asked the original question E85 is an OK alternative