Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

Setup:
B18A
OBD0-OBD1
DSM 450cc injectors
Crome Pro
XSpower manifold
14b Turbo
2.5" DP and 2.5 Crushbent exhaust
JRC FMIC w/ 2.25 crushbent hotside and 2.5 mandrel cool side IC piping
HKS bov

LS transmission
LSDmotorsports 6 puck & HDpp
OBX LSD

Thats about it.. Took the car down to the shop OBD0 w/ turboedit, but the tuner keep having glitches with the software. So he recommended me converting to OBD1 or I would be just wasting my money by trying to make turboedit to work right. So did the switch and he tuned the car for 1 hr and got these numbers. We didnt do anymore b/c I was maxing out my fuel above 6k(stock fuel pump :P ) So @ 8psi we got 216.18 HP & 197.82 FTlbs =) Pretty happy
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3782/hpim2434ki2.jpg
Unfortunatly the car still still smokes underboost and is burning a little oil =( So I think the rings are starting to go, oh well 160k+ miles :crook: Thanks HMT for all the help.

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

Nice numbers guy. Post of vid of the car along with those dyno numbers

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

Ok will do. We set the rev limit at 6k for now so I dont get into the lean area, but I might take a camera along one day. But for sure once I put the new pump in ;D

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

----, at least get a T3!

Not bad though.

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

That really makes me wonder what my old ls/14b setup was making at 16psi... :o

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

Yeah, i'd like to know that too. I heard they just start blowing hot air @ to much over 12psi

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

Well, looking at the compressor maps for 14b's at 10 psi @ 7000 rpm you're sitting about 90% volumetric efficiency on the map, which is still pretty good for such a small turbo. 15 psi at 7,000 is still on the tip of the sweet spot. The 20 psi mark is just pushing your luck, and 25 is way outside the surge limit @ 430cfm. You could jump it up to 15 psi without much of a problem as long as you have a decent sized fmic and a good tune.

I'm actually starting to think about using a 14b/evo3 combo (14b compressor with an evo3 exhaust housing...slightly larger 7cm^2 for a little more top-end response) on my ls/vtec @ 15psi for a very responsive street setup...and seeing that I'm not looking for over 250hp I think the setup should work well, especially after the ls/14b combo outran my b16a/t3 .60 trim all day long.

But good work, keep us updated :)

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

looks good!

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

14b's kick ass for the size/cost, but thats pretty much all ive used. i'd think a 16g would be a pretty good match to a ls motor

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

Hmm, can't ever say I've seen a 90% efficiency range on a compressor map.

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

nice numbers for the set up 8)

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

Steve getting heavy on the tech. hahaha

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

Yeah, thats what i thought too. Little over a $100 for the 14b and once it goes kaput, and if the manifolds still in one piece ill go with a 16g :P Thanks for the positive comments guys :y

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

These are the maps I'm going by...edited of course for ease of reading. I meant VE as far as engine efficiency goes, I'm sure the little 14b is far from close to that in real life. On to the maps...
Attachment 29886
This is your standard 14b compressor map...

Attachment 29887
Edited compressor map...more of a visual aid...

And for shits and giggles a standard garrett t3 60 trim map...
Attachment 29888

Notice the difference in rpms at the peak...14b owns the garrett all over the board.
FYI...430cfm is about 30lbs/min roughly.
Gotta give the 14b's credit...they might look small, but appearances aren't always what they seem...this little guy packs one hell of a punch.

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

DSM guys have gone as fast as 12.20's with the 14b(but NOT stock), and that's a pretty heavy car

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

Read again; T3 is mapped to 65%, that point on the 14b is 60%.

Also, you see 250-280 whp out of .50 trim T3 with the boost cranked, good luck seeing past 240 on a 14b due to exhaust housing, among other reasons.

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

Great numbers :y 16G should be a cheap easy upgrade after some rings then you dont have to change anything.Any pics of the setup?

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

In a very lightened/stripped FWD DSM its been all the way down to 10.8's I don't recall whether they used the 6cm exhaust housing, or swapped to a 7cm.
http://www.joebucci.com/Goodwill1.html

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

You are correct on the maps...I didn't check to what point they were mapped at. As far as exhaust housing goes, I'm going to step up to the 7cm^2 16g housing and see what it does. But at that point the 14b compressor map will be kinda useless. It ought to be a fun little project, my old LS/14b combo never got to hit a dyno, but I did tear my buddy's 86 T/A with a 427hp 355sbc a new -------, and he clocks low 12's all day long. And that was with shitty traction and some heavy as balls 17" motegi wheels because all my 15's had no tires left on them :1 Unfortunately the remnants of my cracked block and bent rods still linger in my garage. :P

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

I need to con a Slowboy (sp?) Racing turbine housing off one of the DSM guys for you if you're so dead set on running a Mitsufeces flange. That way you could upgrade to a T3/T04E and get inexpensive compressors of real size... you need more than a 16G to let the world know you flagrantly don't give a ----.

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

Lol...not that I'm set of using the MHI flange, it's just one of many turbos I have laying around collecting dust, and one of the few that need little work to be fully usable. And since the stock 6cm^2 housing is melted up a little from the previous owner, I figured I should at least replace it, even if I turn around and sell it instead. Budget has always been key word in my builds, and this one's unfortunately going to be no exception. Although I do have that old garrett .48/.60 laying around that's in serious need of a rebuild. :l

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

It's Bullseye power that makes the new turbine housings. The stainless ones are supposed to be pretty badass.

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

that is what i've been saying for years i love the ------- 14b



i think its one of the best turbo's ever built

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

I just read through the website...he's still using the 6cm^2 housing, but ported. Simply amazing that the 14b will keep making 20psi at 7000 rpm's on a 4g63, that definately gives me alot of hope for my 1.8 liter.

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

4G63 with portwork and cams doesn't have the flow of a stock LS cylinder head. You try and push 20 psi on a 14b and it'll be an unhappy day. :(

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

your negative becouse you hate everything dsm

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

You just now figured that out?

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

What's the portflow numbers on a b18a1 head? Not that I'm going to use on, but last time I looked you were doing good if you got a b16 head to flow 300cfm. Here's stock 4g63 portflow...
INTAKE

.100 lift : 78.44 cfm
.200 lift : 149.94 cfm
.300 lift : 204.33 cfm
.350 lift : 217.56 cfm
.400 lift : 224.91 cfm

EXHAUST

.100 lift : 84.42 cfm
.200 lift : 170.2 cfm
.300 lift : 204.88 cfm
.350 lift : 206.45 cfm

Was measured @ 28" of water. Supposedly from what I've read as well, 2nd gen heads have better head castings, and with port work will flow very well. I still want to try this 14b/7cm^2 combo just to see what it'll do, should be interesting to press it to the limits on a b-series motor, although I'm sure it'll be way out of it's efficiency range at high psi numbers. Water cooler anyone? Might look into water injection at the same time...hmm. :l

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

No, I like the 4G63, I just hate everything *attached* to the engine. This doesn't mean that I am not wholly correct in my statement that an LS head flows more.

I went through this with some DSM asshat in the HT HX35 thread, he threw the same bullshit flowbench numbers at me - if you want the detailled break down of how I broke one off in him feel free to check there, because it was a multi-faceted argument that he lost on all counts. Most significantly, what the DSM asshat couldn't provide me with were DSM power numbers that could hold a candle to a stock head LS dyno graph when I was more than willing to let the figures be modified to reflect AWD losses and totally discount the difference in engine displacements.

There's a lot more going on here than junk flowbench numbers - the quality of the flow in question is pathetic, the actual flow dictated by bottom end geometry is pathetic, etc, which is why DSMs take 1.9 million psi to break 300 whp. DSMtard wanted to make effeminant hp per psi comparisons - which is all comparing headflow on turbocharged cars is - and got his dick put in the dirt because he lacked a clue.

What the 4G63 has going for it is the ability to take a fuckton of heat and never fail, and the ability to handle a fuckton of power on top of it when DSMtards grow a set of balls and bolt on something bigger than faggot 16/20G. It's ability to handle large quantities of airmass is most excellent, and this is why Joey likes it.

All of this has -->zero<-- to do with the fact that an LS will max a 14b well before 20 psi. Hell, a SOHC sucks one dry at 14-15 psi - you are aware of junk flowbench number discrepancy between D16 and LS heads, aren't you?

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

Does anybody on here know the stock flow numbers on a B18a head??? If not does anyone have the small bore size adapter for a superflow? I have a flow bench and a stock head, but not the 75 bucks for the adapter, just because I don't care that much.

Randy
PS Smallest bore I have is a 3.75 inch

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

Alaniz used to have a bunch of stock flowcharts up on their website. 28" water, .500" lift, I'd guess in the 205-215 range. With pimp valvejob will flow as much as unported VTEC head, 230. Highest I've ever heard of stock are a couple ITR heads (quick and sleazy factory ported) in the ~240-250 range - the one I touched made 191 whp stock longblock with boltons.

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

4g63 combustion chamber sucks ass. The valves have more shrouding than a smallblock ford, and the lack of quench area+ shitty ic, intake, etc. leads the engine to be prone to knock at realitively low power levels. In fact, this is one of the only engines still in production that you have to "tune for knock" For the record, the 4g61 head has a much better combustion chamber, but flows poorly comparied to the 63'
JD is right on target about the heads. Big ports do not equal a high flowing head, or an effiecient engine for that matter. This is one of the many reasons I'm building a Honda and will not own another dsm. :6

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

I fully understand what you're saying JD, and I won't argue any of the points you made either. As far as i can see it, the only thing nice about a 4g63 is the cast iron block, everything else is pretty much like you said...junk. I've had to rebuild my friend's boss's 4g63 3 times so far, 2 times because of crank walk, and once because he over-revved it and lost all the rockers.
I'm aware of the LS/14b matchup. Honestly I did like the way it ran the last time I did it. I'm not a big fan of waiting for boost until almost 5k, I like quick boost seeing that the car is mostly street driven. I loved the response it had, 8psi by around 3200 and ripped hard all the way to 7k at 14psi, then started dying off a tad but only by about 2 psi. Only problem was I had to crack the wastegate open a hair, otherwise it would spool by 2200rpm and would detonate like crazy...which I blame on trying to use a vafc for managment untuned. The larger exhaust housing should help out some, and now that I have a straight exhaust (instead of the standard EF way-too-many-90's exhaust) it should do a bit better. Honestly if money wasn't such an issue, I would look into larger t3/t4 setups.

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

2G 4G63 shouldn't be mentioned in the same forum as 1G 4G63. If the man was building a 2G it's due to INBREEDING.

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

Only good thing I've read on 2g heads is you're able to port them to flow better than 1st gen, but mind you...that's second-hand info and not something I can vouche for firsthand. :-\

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

14b on a sohc is a ------- great match up

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

Damn right it is. I've been tempted a few times to sell off all my b-series motors and just build a D for much less money with another 14b. Most fun I ever had with any motor, B or D series.

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

Actually there was a guy with an all out race FWD that went TENS! I'll See if I can Find the link

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

I already posted the link. Post #17

Re: Got my 14b LS back from the Dyno!!
 

Videos please :8