Does Twin Charging Actually Work?
01-27-2006, 05:09 PM
#41
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 236
Re: Does Twin Charging Actually Work?
Originally Posted by Freebs
**Shakes head** man where do you people come up with your stuff? have you personaly looked into it? or are you just going on things you have heard?
1. i dont rev my engine up when i launch...
2. drag on the engine? how so? it would be no different then if it was just the supercharger... the turbo isnt putting any more load on it
3.you obviously dont know your stuff or else you would know that because the turbo is compressing the air before it goes threw the supercharger it will already be compressed, technically letting more air into it... say _____ thats how much the s/c'er can take normaly.. the turbo turns "_____" in to __... still the same amount of air but its been compressed already... not 100% acurate but thats about as simple as i can make it
4. Yes when it fianlly spools i will have power... hence the supercharger for the lag in power... the Roots blowers have such nice low end power they will destroy most turboed cars with in the same class as me off the line but their top end BLOWS and turbo cars will always come out the winner in that one... there for you combind both and you have good low and and you can get a bigger turbo for even BIGGER top end then a normal car would have since they couldnt even spool the turbo you use or wouldnt spool till like 5000rpm....
I said it before but a 2.4L like mine will fully spool a Garrett T3/T04E 46 trim turbo at 3000rpm.... I have a T3/T04E 60 trim... i bet you i will fully spool sooner then a regular turbo 2.4L with a bigger turbo being that the supercharger will be forcing air threw the turbo from the second i hit the gas and will also be sucking it threw the turbo, resulting in a FAST spool up...
And NO i am not saying my end power will be higher then a Turbo 2.4L... i am saying i will have MUCH more lower end power and a way steeper power curve..
Now my question for you is...
Do you understand compression ratios?
1. i dont rev my engine up when i launch...
2. drag on the engine? how so? it would be no different then if it was just the supercharger... the turbo isnt putting any more load on it
3.you obviously dont know your stuff or else you would know that because the turbo is compressing the air before it goes threw the supercharger it will already be compressed, technically letting more air into it... say _____ thats how much the s/c'er can take normaly.. the turbo turns "_____" in to __... still the same amount of air but its been compressed already... not 100% acurate but thats about as simple as i can make it
4. Yes when it fianlly spools i will have power... hence the supercharger for the lag in power... the Roots blowers have such nice low end power they will destroy most turboed cars with in the same class as me off the line but their top end BLOWS and turbo cars will always come out the winner in that one... there for you combind both and you have good low and and you can get a bigger turbo for even BIGGER top end then a normal car would have since they couldnt even spool the turbo you use or wouldnt spool till like 5000rpm....
I said it before but a 2.4L like mine will fully spool a Garrett T3/T04E 46 trim turbo at 3000rpm.... I have a T3/T04E 60 trim... i bet you i will fully spool sooner then a regular turbo 2.4L with a bigger turbo being that the supercharger will be forcing air threw the turbo from the second i hit the gas and will also be sucking it threw the turbo, resulting in a FAST spool up...
And NO i am not saying my end power will be higher then a Turbo 2.4L... i am saying i will have MUCH more lower end power and a way steeper power curve..
Now my question for you is...
Do you understand compression ratios?
01-27-2006, 07:13 PM
#42
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 33
Re: Does Twin Charging Actually Work?
Originally Posted by kill-ka-t-kill
so in other words it would be useless
Top end = Sameas turbod 2.4L
Lower end = alot stronger with INSTANT!! boost from the supercharger
aparently you have never driven a vehical with a big block engine, and felt what huge low end torque feels like...
So if its useless your saying im always going to be driving around at 4000-5000rpm? Sorry but i personally cruz around at about 2000rpm and at that RPM i will have VERY little power from the turbo where as with the supercharger i will have like 4-5psi of boost (guessing) instantly @ 2000rpm...then when i do get up in the RPM's the turbo will be spooled giving me big top end...
02-14-2006, 01:34 AM
#43
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 397
Re: Does Twin Charging Actually Work?
OK, kind of a stupid question after all that is said, but for you who know what is going on, would I be better putting 4-5 psi into the the INTAKE of a SC that makes 9 psi, or would I be better COMBINING 4-5 psi with 9 psi?
ie
One supercharger making 4-5 psi and one making 9 psi. Do I combine or feed?
ie
One supercharger making 4-5 psi and one making 9 psi. Do I combine or feed?
02-14-2006, 09:57 PM
#44
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 397
Re: Does Twin Charging Actually Work?
i don't know if this is what your looking for but...(this was taken from OHV Notec on JBO)
When the supercharger compresses atmospheric air to 5 psi, it's 19.7 psi absolute. This gives a ratio of 19.7/14.7 (outlet pressure/inlet pressure). Now, when you have already compressed air entering the charger, you multiply the input pressure (absolute) by this ratio to get the outlet pressure (absolute), then subtract the 14.7 atmospheric to get your new 'boost'.
((7+14.7) x (19.7/14.7)) - 14.7 = 14.4psi
((7+14.7) x (19.7/14.7)) - 14.7 = 14.4psi
02-14-2006, 10:31 PM
#45
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 397
Re: Does Twin Charging Actually Work?
It partially does.
If I do the dump one into the other, the 9 psi dumped into the 5 psi = 17 psi. The 5 psi dumped into the 9 psi = 15.4 psi.
If I were to dump 9 into 9, it would end up about 23.5.
All in theory of course.
And that is for the pressurising of the pressure.
So what still needs to be addressed is what just Y'ing two pressurised pipes into one yields.
However, doing the charger into charger doesnt look so bad.....
If I do the dump one into the other, the 9 psi dumped into the 5 psi = 17 psi. The 5 psi dumped into the 9 psi = 15.4 psi.
If I were to dump 9 into 9, it would end up about 23.5.
All in theory of course.
And that is for the pressurising of the pressure.
So what still needs to be addressed is what just Y'ing two pressurised pipes into one yields.
However, doing the charger into charger doesnt look so bad.....
02-14-2006, 10:35 PM
#46
3.0 BAR
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 9,800
Re: Does Twin Charging Actually Work?
***** not going to combine folks.
both measure boost as intake manifold pressure (psi)
if you have a turbo with a wastegate set to open at 10psi, its gonna open when the intake manifold sees 10psi. if you have a supercharger pushing 10psi, its gonna push 10psi, one way or another, wastegates are gonna open and the system is gonna see 10psi total.
think about it....if that supercharger spins up 10 pounds of boost right away, whether or not that turbo is spooled isn't gonna matter, the wastegates gonna open.
both measure boost as intake manifold pressure (psi)
if you have a turbo with a wastegate set to open at 10psi, its gonna open when the intake manifold sees 10psi. if you have a supercharger pushing 10psi, its gonna push 10psi, one way or another, wastegates are gonna open and the system is gonna see 10psi total.
think about it....if that supercharger spins up 10 pounds of boost right away, whether or not that turbo is spooled isn't gonna matter, the wastegates gonna open.
02-14-2006, 10:55 PM
#47
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 397
Re: Does Twin Charging Actually Work?
No waste gate, its supercharger to supercharger.
One, if not both are/will be activated by electric clutch. The current SC is electric clutch (eaton M62). If the second one ends up being simply pully driven, then there will have to be the bypass valve setup.
One, if not both are/will be activated by electric clutch. The current SC is electric clutch (eaton M62). If the second one ends up being simply pully driven, then there will have to be the bypass valve setup.
02-14-2006, 10:58 PM
#48
3.0 BAR
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 9,800
Re: Does Twin Charging Actually Work?
Originally Posted by reddevil
No waste gate, its supercharger to supercharger.
One, if not both are/will be activated by electric clutch. The current SC is electric clutch (eaton M62). If the second one ends up being simply pully driven, then there will have to be the bypass valve setup.
One, if not both are/will be activated by electric clutch. The current SC is electric clutch (eaton M62). If the second one ends up being simply pully driven, then there will have to be the bypass valve setup.
02-15-2006, 11:31 AM
#50
1.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 260
Re: Does Twin Charging Actually Work?
damn who reserected this thread?
basically the only way it is pracitcal is to have the SC set at like 40 psi and the turbo set at 40 psi which will eliminate the lag of a turbo that will make 40 psi effecienctly.
And street use is basically impractical.
basically the only way it is pracitcal is to have the SC set at like 40 psi and the turbo set at 40 psi which will eliminate the lag of a turbo that will make 40 psi effecienctly.
And street use is basically impractical.
