4A-GTE Configuration Questions
11-22-2008, 06:00 PM
#63
0.0 BAR
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Re: 4A-GTE Configuration Questions
Just outside Columbus, Thats actually my wife's car there though I'm the one throwin all the cash down on it. Spent over 40k on it so far... Its about 600HP on motor, building a 410cube blower motor for it next.
11-23-2008, 08:29 PM
#64
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Re: 4A-GTE Configuration Questions
I will soon be upgrading the injectors in the MR2, would 800cc's be enough for 400+HP? Everything I read points to that, but under boost, would the flow not be reduced beacuse of the reduced pressure differential? If needed I have a 4:1 FMU and I will be revising the fuel system for the required flow.
11-24-2008, 11:38 AM
#65
3.0 BAR
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,330
Re: 4A-GTE Configuration Questions
Originally Posted by Conceptz-X
I will soon be upgrading the injectors in the MR2, would 800cc's be enough for 400+HP? Everything I read points to that, but under boost, would the flow not be reduced beacuse of the reduced pressure differential? If needed I have a 4:1 FMU and I will be revising the fuel system for the required flow.
Pressure differential? Are you talking about the pressure drop across the rail? Thats really only a problem with small diameter rails and side-feed injectors. You have neither.
FMU will only make it more difficult and unpredictible to tune. If you need an adjustible pressure regulator to get your static pressure at idle to 40-43psi then do it, otherwise dont even think about rising rate regulators. *NOTE* your engine will probably only want 34-37psi to idle nicely, but with your vacuum/pressure source line unhooked when setting base fuel pressure you want to be around 40-43psi. Vacuum will pull it down in the 30's range.
800cc's is more than enough to do 400+whp. You could get away safely with 650cc and still have plenty of room. Unless your JD
you might have some trouble trimming them down for idle, but then again you may not. Every setup is different, and your haltec may be the determining factor in that.
11-24-2008, 10:20 PM
#66
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Re: 4A-GTE Configuration Questions
with a 20V I do have side feeds. I think I can enlarge the rail though.
Pressure diff, Simplified ex:
43 PSIG fuel Pressure. roughly 3 times the pressure of ambient.
57PSIA
assuming most regulators are 1:1
43 PSIG fuel Press + 30 PSI Boost = 73 PSIG
88PSIA
roughly 4.8 times ambient, however the manifold now has 30PSI in it inder boost.
88 PSIA fuel Press. / 45PSIA manifold press = roughly now only 2 times the pressure across the injector rather than 3 times under no boost.
I would think the ratio of pressure that was 3:1 now 2:1 would have an adverse on injector flow (like a 600CC now would flow 400cc) and spray pattern, am I correct? or just over-engineering my wheel here?
Pressure diff, Simplified ex:
43 PSIG fuel Pressure. roughly 3 times the pressure of ambient.
57PSIA
assuming most regulators are 1:1
43 PSIG fuel Press + 30 PSI Boost = 73 PSIG
88PSIA
roughly 4.8 times ambient, however the manifold now has 30PSI in it inder boost.
88 PSIA fuel Press. / 45PSIA manifold press = roughly now only 2 times the pressure across the injector rather than 3 times under no boost.
I would think the ratio of pressure that was 3:1 now 2:1 would have an adverse on injector flow (like a 600CC now would flow 400cc) and spray pattern, am I correct? or just over-engineering my wheel here?
11-25-2008, 10:06 AM
#68
3.0 BAR
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,330
Re: 4A-GTE Configuration Questions
Originally Posted by Conceptz-X
with a 20V I do have side feeds. I think I can enlarge the rail though.
Pressure diff, Simplified ex:
43 PSIG fuel Pressure. roughly 3 times the pressure of ambient.
57PSIA
assuming most regulators are 1:1
43 PSIG fuel Press + 30 PSI Boost = 73 PSIG
88PSIA
roughly 4.8 times ambient, however the manifold now has 30PSI in it inder boost.
88 PSIA fuel Press. / 45PSIA manifold press = roughly now only 2 times the pressure across the injector rather than 3 times under no boost.
I would think the ratio of pressure that was 3:1 now 2:1 would have an adverse on injector flow (like a 600CC now would flow 400cc) and spray pattern, am I correct? or just over-engineering my wheel here?
Pressure diff, Simplified ex:
43 PSIG fuel Pressure. roughly 3 times the pressure of ambient.
57PSIA
assuming most regulators are 1:1
43 PSIG fuel Press + 30 PSI Boost = 73 PSIG
88PSIA
roughly 4.8 times ambient, however the manifold now has 30PSI in it inder boost.
88 PSIA fuel Press. / 45PSIA manifold press = roughly now only 2 times the pressure across the injector rather than 3 times under no boost.
I would think the ratio of pressure that was 3:1 now 2:1 would have an adverse on injector flow (like a 600CC now would flow 400cc) and spray pattern, am I correct? or just over-engineering my wheel here?
What your suggesting is a temporary solution to a perminent problem.
Replace the rail and injectors with some that dont suck. Or if you are feeling brave, you can make your own rail, which isnt a bad as it sounds. I'll try to find the pics of the copper rail my brother built for a 16v redtop aw11.
11-25-2008, 09:17 PM
#69
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Re: 4A-GTE Configuration Questions
I know what you mean about pressure drop across the rail. I believe I can enlarge the existing rail. or do something to make it work without any drop, like feed both sides with the regulator off the rail.
I'll check the fuel pressure when I get the turbo installed under boost and see about the numbers against my math.
I'll check the fuel pressure when I get the turbo installed under boost and see about the numbers against my math.
11-30-2008, 12:30 AM
#70
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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Re: 4A-GTE Configuration Questions
Found some useful info if anybody else is interested in the 6.0L owerstroke Turbo
*Garret designation is GT3782VA
*3" round v-band turbine inlet (stepped flange)
*Vane actuator uses oil pressure ("55-60psi will do")
*Oil drain requires a large return. >7/8" ID This is due to needing to dump all the oil in the actuator at times.
*100Hz PWM frequency recommended
*Current control is preferred... 70% DC is fully closed, 25% is open
*Do not have to worry about oil pressure affecting actuator position
*Turbo will handle 1400*F EGT all day 24/7. 1500*F intermittently
*Above 1400*F the ~cast iron exhaust housing begins to flake off internally.
*Turbo overspeeds at 120k RPM. The 6.0L ford running 26PSI@3300RPM is "very close" to that... so we should be fine to 6k with our 3L.
*The A/R is .4 with vanes fully closed and .9 with fully open.
I was mistaken about the designation, I called it a GTP38 Garrett says the turbo I have is good to 550HP
*Garret designation is GT3782VA
*3" round v-band turbine inlet (stepped flange)
*Vane actuator uses oil pressure ("55-60psi will do")
*Oil drain requires a large return. >7/8" ID This is due to needing to dump all the oil in the actuator at times.
*100Hz PWM frequency recommended
*Current control is preferred... 70% DC is fully closed, 25% is open
*Do not have to worry about oil pressure affecting actuator position
*Turbo will handle 1400*F EGT all day 24/7. 1500*F intermittently
*Above 1400*F the ~cast iron exhaust housing begins to flake off internally.
*Turbo overspeeds at 120k RPM. The 6.0L ford running 26PSI@3300RPM is "very close" to that... so we should be fine to 6k with our 3L.
*The A/R is .4 with vanes fully closed and .9 with fully open.
I was mistaken about the designation, I called it a GTP38 Garrett says the turbo I have is good to 550HP
