Hitchhikkr

Price per dollar is what you must consider. Just the intial price for what it would cost to swap a 3S into an AW11 doing ALL the work yourself, you could build a bullet proof 4A and have a lot of $$$ left over. And then go to modding your not-new 3Sgte, which is going to break because they are all old now, and still not have a reliable 300hp daily because 3S rarely make those numbers without a standalone, etc etc.

You could build 2-3 fully forged 4A's for the price of one forged 3S.

The SC transmission has the same gearset (different casing) as the turbo mk2 Mr2 transmisson. Not to mention an AW11 is ALOT lighter than an sw20 by 500+lbs on average.

If FWD honda's can put 400+ to the ground, I think that a RWD aw11 with the motor/trans sitting on the drivewheels can do the same with proper suspension setup and tires.

Mixing around AFM's and fiddling with an AFC is not proper tuning on an engine that's sensitive to ignition timing to begin with. He clearly doesnt care if he blows them up. Fail.

TTC

If you do it yourself it wont cost to much to drop in the 3s, but you are correct that they are getting old and at those hp levels you'll have to at least open the 3s to see how healthy it is. Guess it all comes down to what is easier, sure a 3s won t drop right in but when it comes down to it a gze and 3sgte arent that much more expensive than one another. Can you not make 400whp on stock mr2 rods and crank?

Hitchhikkr

He already has a 20v silverhat. GZE pistons are all thats needed for the bottom end to handle the power he wants. He doesnt need to do a GZE swap.


Yes you can make 400whp on stock 3s rods and crank. You can also make 400whp on stock 4A rods and crank. Its really going to boil down to tuning.

The 3S swap is a bit more cash than I imagine you are led to believe. All the mounts have to be made, standalone wired up, SC/turbo hybrid axles, becomes more of a pain to work on, etc. Basically your digging yourself into a hole.

You never see reliable turbo 4A's because much like hondas were before crome/uberdata/ectune nobody tunes them properly, and piggybacks the stock failure ecu to compound the problem.

Stock toyota VAST system sucks the **** in the ignition timing department. The map based system is even worse. Stand alone or bust.

CXyD

why not convert the ecu to a honda ecu and use crome, ectune, neptune, etc. could save a lot on engine management.

Hitchhikkr

Def. a good option on the 20v since the dizzy is on the end of the cam already, and probably the OP's best course of action.

More difficult on a 16v aw11 because the dizzy is side mounted and there is no room to mount a honda dizzy on the end of a cam gear like the ae86. Not saying its not doable, just difficult.

TTC

That has been done, but the guy who did it wouldnt let anyone know. Guess he had delusions of making a ton of money on the idea. The biggest problem is that hondas spin the opposit direction of the yotas, so you would have to get a dizzy gear/DLI gear that was cut and spun the other direction. I think you can machine the honda dizzy and yota dizzy to work. Great success has been had with megasquirt tho, im using ford edis and its been solid for years. I don't know if i would run 400whp on it tho. I understand that both blocks will take the abuse with proper tuning but I havent heard of anyone doing more than 1 pull on a stock piston'd 4age. The gze pistons are stout, and the silvertop bottom end is identical to the gze/redtop ect. But in no way should anyone be led to believe that GZE pistons will take 400hp worth of abuse daily. They might last a few dyno pulls but that is it. They are super strong for what they cost, ceramic coated and will fit when you flycut them but they wont take those kind of cylinder pressures. All it would take is a bad mix of heat, bad tank of gas, maybe an incline before they ---- the bed. Anythign is possible but caman ... Someone did some metallurgy tests on the GZE pistons and they turned out to not be forged iirc, something with the grain of the metal. I can't remember. Most people shooting for near 300 will change the pistons at least, and some leave the rods as well.

CXyD

there is a thread about 4ag with obd1 honda conversion https://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/...?topic=97764.0

TurboGuy

I'm running a Haltech E8, should have no problem tuning. Feeling the system out right now with the N/A motor. Soon to upgrade to my 4 bar map sensor so that I can tune my N/A points and be drivable when I add the turbo. Also I was thinking with the VGT turbo, running the vanes wide open at cruise, then let them close up about 30% throttle and up, it'll lag a little, but I think drivability will be much better, plus I'm not advertising too much cruisin down the highway when I dont feel like running someone.

Tom-Guy

Bill doesn't sound like he knows what he's talking about. Destroking a NA engine that already has B16 geometry? Uhm, ------- fail dude. Displacement is king, sorry, and rod-stroke ratio is irrelevant on a small four cylinder where the pistons and rods weigh so little that side load is not a factor. There is a reason why 1.5 RS Hondas last 250K+ miles when taken care of.

Reading Bill is like reading Honduh interweb experts back in '97-98. A stock D16 can't handle more than 6 psi, a B-series can't do more than 10 psi.


The SW20 MR2's need about 450, minimum. On street tires you need less power or to feather the gas in first, but second gear lays all that down that down nicely. So far I've really only been through two MR2s at or about that power level; a stock head piston/rod 3S with 62-1, made 390 @ 19 psi, and a 5FE stroker with cams 425 whp. I haven't been able to go to the track with either of them to watch how they hook and offer input... but since we're launching FWD CRXs on dinky 24.5" slicks in the 425-ish range I see no reason why a heavier RWD MR2 wouldn't want more, just needs the suspension correctly set up for it. Yah, I know that kills some portion of the corner carving magic of an MR2, but they are magic in a straight line as well. SW20 is definitely a wierd *** chassis, mechanically and electrically, and the gearing "feels" all wrong, but they flat out work.

I've not been through any AW11, sadly, aside from putting a FWD (?) trans in one years ago. I've always had an affection for the 4A's, I had some friends who campaigned FX's in the auto-x back in HS.

TurboGuy

Displacement is best, I wouldn't destroke any engine. Bore is the best gainer for displacement, mainly because you dont have to drag the rings any further. As far as rod ratios, In my experience, I lean toward short rods, especially when you have a quench area of the combustion chamber. It helps mix the fuel and air at TDC and get a better burn. A longer rod makes the piston slow further from TDC and therefore has less of a mixing effect. There is a tradeoff here too, as with a shorter rod, the piston, pin, rod, and crank are under more tensile stress at TDC at the end of the EXH stroke.