IowaTCoupe

Ok... i am stumped...

Short story:
I took a B18a1 engine, and put it in my 95 obd1 civic
I used the D16z6 obd1 wire harness, and p28 ecu (i chipped it for a b18 w/ crome)
I also used the alternator from the d16, but i have the obd0 distributor that came w/ the b18.


Problem: Before i tried cranking the engine, the fuel pump came on... i could hear it, and i saw pressure in the lines (pressure guage under hood)
When i tried cranking it for the first time... something happened... i didn't know what, but the engine did NOT crank... i came out and looked at the engine bay, and my stainless steel oil line, which was touchiing the powersteering pump... they got welded together. just tacked... not stuck, so i pulled it off, and put some electrical tape around it, and made sure it was not touching the alternator... Check~... tried starting again... This time the fuel pump DID NOT come on, and instead of the engine cranking over... the RADIATOR FAN COMES ON!!! wtf?!?!?!... now, i don't mean when the car is on ACC... but when i turn the key to CRANK, the fan comes on... when i take the key off crank, and leave it on ACC... the fan is now off.
I DONT UNDERSTAND?!?!? The starter is plugged in correctly, as is the alternator.

I also tried unplugging the coolant temp radiator fan switch (back of block on b18 (my case), in Tstat housing on D16)
I also tried switching these coolant temp switch wires. (Green wire and Black wire)
Same results... Radiator fan comes on.


Here is what i have plugged in and where. (remember, this is the z6 harness plugged into a b18a1):


D16z6 Wire Harness B18a1 block
Distributor (from obd-0 b18a1)~~~ good.. plugged into obd1 harness fine
Vtec plugs (x2) Left Unplugged
Speed sensor(D16 sensor in Btranny)~~~ good.. plugged into z6 harness.
Backup light on tranny~~~ Good (front/bottom of B18 tranny)
Oxygen Sensor~~~ Good (on downpipe)
Map Sensor~~~ Plugged into my GM 3 bar Map mounted on firewall
Oil pressure Sensor~~~ Good (back of block, one prong)
Intake Air Temp Sensor~~~ Near Fuel pressure regulator on IM (Red-ylw / Grn=wht)
Coolant Temp Sensor~~~ Underneath Distributor (Grn-wht / Red-wht)
Rad. Fan temp switch~~~ Back of B18 block. Two prongs (GRN wire and BLK wire)
Purge Cntrl Solenoid~~~ Left unplugged
ELECT air Ctrl valve solenoid (EACV) Back of Intake Manifold (Blue-Yel / Yel-blk)
There is one green plug on the back of the engine block that i've been told is some type of oil temperature sensor for the B18 emmissions, and is not needed... so it has nothing plugged into it. Also, the B18a1 does NOT have a knock sensor keep in mind... that is only on the dohc vtec engines... this is not vtec.
The yellow highlighted plugs i'm questioning that might be the culprits.


Do you think i blew the pgmfi MAIN RELAY when the oil line grounded on the P/S pump maybe this is why the fuel pump is no longer coming on
Maybe it's a ground wire missing?
i have 3 ground wires:
1 from upper radiator support to valve cover
1 from passenger side frame to tranny
1 that has 4 little wires that ground to a bracket on the starter)

I HAVE CHECKED EVERY SINGLE FUSE under the hood, and under the dash. ALL are good.

I'M STUMPED~!!! HELP ME PLEASE!!!!

Tom-Guy

You have three power grounds, but is your logic ground for the ECU connected? Thermostat housing, y0.

The PS pump and oil line welding together is... freaking wierd. I have no idea why/how a sizeable chunk of current would be passing between those.

The radiator fan coming on is wierd... should be controlled entirely by the two prong thermoswitch on the back of the block --> fan relay ---> fan, the entire works being powered by the ignition switch. Unplug the two prong switch, etc, poke at it with a big stick.

It sounds like something freakishly wierd is going on beside the fact that an OBD0 distributor has a 16 tooth CKP sensor that is incompatible with OBD1 which looks for a 24 tooth unit.

Fuel pump comes on in synch with the CEL on the dash when you cycle the key... if you have CEL without fuel pump it's main relay. Tell us what you see and hear; no CEL/solid CEL/half lit CEL/ticking noise from the main relay are all signs of a bad logic ground at the thermostat housing.

IowaTCoupe

Your tellin me it's weird

But the CEL WAS only coming half on (very dim)
So, i took all the ground wires off... cleaned em up, put them back on... and took the fan temp switch and unplugged it... Reset the battery and burned a new basemap (i didnt know if it fried in the process)

I got a video of the spark and the oil line welding together... i'll post that up monday when i get my camera cord.

But... it turns over now, and the fuel pump works again... WONDERFUL! :1
i dont know what happened, i guess it was a bad ground loop or something.

Tom-Guy

Sounds like it... the half-lit CEL means power/ground problem to the ECU, 95% the time ground. If the CEL/fuel pump cycle correctly now you should be able to crank it once you have the correct distributor.

PS - I ASSume you can use the D16Z6 distributor, but it's odd leg arraingement might run afoul of something... I've used B7 and Y8 before on LS, you have to turn them so the legs are between bolt holes and then hold them in place with very large washers. Get the engine at TDC on #1 and see where the distributor lines up with #1 on the distributor cap and you'll understand.

IowaTCoupe

Well... it runs... kind of.

It has the b18 distributor on it right now... and i dont have my z6 dizzy anymore that got sold.

when i crank it... it starts up fine... but revs up to about 3k rpm and sits there for 3-4 seconds... then it comes back down to BARELY running... and its putting/studdering on only 1 or 2 cylinders.

If i press on the gas... it almost dies... then as soon as i take my foot OFF the gas... it revvs back up to 3k rpm... then comes back down and puts... then quits.


I need to get these vaccuum lines sorted out i believe. And JD... about those coolant lines... i didnt block them off, i ran them the proper way... so it shouldn't have that crazy idle because of that. One headache after another... but i'm getting through them slowly with help. I WISH I HAD A 90-91 INTEGRA to look at the vaccum lines... or if anyone has a b18a1... if they can show me where the lines go... like iacv goes to a vacuum source? (such as like the Fuel pressure regulator?

I'll have pictures up tonight of the three ports i'm confused about. They're all on the upper part of the intake manifold. One is on the throttlebody, one is on the IACV, and the last is just to the right of the IACV. they're all tiny little nipples that look like vaccuum lines.

Tom-Guy

Well, all you need to run in limp home mode is the 4-tooth TDC sensor, which OBD0 and OBD1/2 have in common. If you haven't kicked CEL 8 yet the wacky, problems could be caused by the ECU paying attention to the 16 tooth CKP. Sopunds like you're supposed to have a cold high idle of 3K (from how the FIT-V is adjusted) and are running into crap problems. Bad coil problems or ignitor problems also cause wierd dead cylinder type issues.


Vacuum lines on all OBD0/1/2 Honduhs are as simple as running them to FPR and MAP. The rest of the ---- is not needed.

I really think you should at the least borrow an OBD1/2 distributor to troubleshoot with. The OBD0 distributor introduces an element of ------- around that could cloud the issue.

88dx

I had a oil line weld its self to the valve cover nut, I forgot the tranny ground

IowaTCoupe

Here are the three nipples i'm confused about. As for trying an obd1 distributor, i'll have to borrow my buddies from the z6. I have to go to NH for school from mon-thurs, so i'll try it thursday night. ARGH... i really wanted to boost tonight.

Tom-Guy

From left to right:

- Optional vent for charcoal canister (bullshit)
- Bullshit
- Bullshit

None of them are needed, or need to be connected.

IowaTCoupe

i also found this~ Not sure if it's from the b18a1 or not...
But according to this little schematic... another ODD thing... i am not running a "fuel pressure regulator control solenoid valve". I just have my B&M adjustable FPR. I also do not have an evap purge contrl solenoid. That plug is left unplugged on my z6 obd1 wire harness.

http://hondaswap.com/attachments/hyb...ap-b18avac.jpg