ups and downs of a ihi thunderbird turbo???
08-06-2005, 07:56 PM
#62
0.5 BAR
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 152
Re: ups and downs of a ihi thunderbird turbo???
I have compressor maps for a few of the older RHB5 turbos ...if I can find them, the info. for the older RHB5s is starting to float around the net now including any maps that I have, I can't get anything on the new VFs tho.
Neil
Neil
08-06-2005, 10:07 PM
#63
0.5 BAR
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 59
Re: ups and downs of a ihi thunderbird turbo???
The IHI RHB5 series is available with two turbine wheels - a 52mm and 54mm, but the 52mm is far and away the most common. This is the one found on the t-bird, probe, and most subarus.
The A/R on the IHI turbos is stated in mm^2/mm, and RHB5 turbine housings are available in 9, 12, 15, 20, and 25, which correspond to 0.36, 0.48, 0.60, 0.78 and 1.00 in garrett units.
The T-bird and Probe both use the 52mm turbine wheel in a 20 (0.7
A/R housing. Be careful the isuzu housing you're using isn't for a 54mm wheel - the turbine housing will have either "5200" or "5400" cast into it, which indicates which wheel it was made for.
On one of my RHB5s that I have sitting around from a Subaru EA82t engine from the 80's, I have a "12" (0.4 A/R housing with a 52mm turbine wheel - man does it ever spool up fast down low and choke off big time in the upper rpm. 
Some other interesting things of note:
The compressor in the probe is biased toward elimination of surge and high pressure ratios at relatively low flow. It is rated for ~300-325cfm, about the same as a DSM T25, but it can actually put out 325cfm at a pressure ratio of 2.7 (23-25psi of boost)
The compressor in the thunderbird turbo coupe is biased heavily toward flow and much less for "high" pressure ratios - it actually is outside of spec at anything above a 2.4 pressure ratio (wheelspeed exceeds design limits) This is one of the reasons people with the tbird IHI turbos complain that they "blow up" if you run significantly more than stock boost sometimes. It is however, rated for 350cfm, but only at a pressure ratio of 1.8 (11-12psi) If you have a small or low-flowing engine that requires more than 12psi of boost @ ~300cfm, the t-bird compressor actually is *less* efficient and rated to flow less than the one on the probe.
The A/R on the IHI turbos is stated in mm^2/mm, and RHB5 turbine housings are available in 9, 12, 15, 20, and 25, which correspond to 0.36, 0.48, 0.60, 0.78 and 1.00 in garrett units.
The T-bird and Probe both use the 52mm turbine wheel in a 20 (0.7
A/R housing. Be careful the isuzu housing you're using isn't for a 54mm wheel - the turbine housing will have either "5200" or "5400" cast into it, which indicates which wheel it was made for.On one of my RHB5s that I have sitting around from a Subaru EA82t engine from the 80's, I have a "12" (0.4
A/R housing with a 52mm turbine wheel - man does it ever spool up fast down low and choke off big time in the upper rpm. Some other interesting things of note:
The compressor in the probe is biased toward elimination of surge and high pressure ratios at relatively low flow. It is rated for ~300-325cfm, about the same as a DSM T25, but it can actually put out 325cfm at a pressure ratio of 2.7 (23-25psi of boost)
The compressor in the thunderbird turbo coupe is biased heavily toward flow and much less for "high" pressure ratios - it actually is outside of spec at anything above a 2.4 pressure ratio (wheelspeed exceeds design limits) This is one of the reasons people with the tbird IHI turbos complain that they "blow up" if you run significantly more than stock boost sometimes. It is however, rated for 350cfm, but only at a pressure ratio of 1.8 (11-12psi) If you have a small or low-flowing engine that requires more than 12psi of boost @ ~300cfm, the t-bird compressor actually is *less* efficient and rated to flow less than the one on the probe.
08-07-2005, 12:28 AM
#64
1.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 525
Re: ups and downs of a ihi thunderbird turbo???
nice to know man thanks not i just have to figure out how to lowere the stock wasgate since they said its at 14 psi heres some pics of my mani and turbo so far for those of you who care check it out http://www.idahostreetracing.com/php...pic.php?t=7457
its in the middle of the thread let me know what you guys think
its in the middle of the thread let me know what you guys think
08-07-2005, 03:32 PM
#65
0.5 BAR
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 152
Re: ups and downs of a ihi thunderbird turbo???
Originally Posted by ThingyNess
The compressor in the probe is biased toward elimination of surge and high pressure ratios at relatively low flow. It is rated for ~300-325cfm, about the same as a DSM T25, but it can actually put out 325cfm at a pressure ratio of 2.7 (23-25psi of boost)
The compressor in the thunderbird turbo coupe is biased heavily toward flow and much less for "high" pressure ratios - it actually is outside of spec at anything above a 2.4 pressure ratio (wheelspeed exceeds design limits) This is one of the reasons people with the tbird IHI turbos complain that they "blow up" if you run significantly more than stock boost sometimes. It is however, rated for 350cfm, but only at a pressure ratio of 1.8 (11-12psi) If you have a small or low-flowing engine that requires more than 12psi of boost @ ~300cfm, the t-bird compressor actually is *less* efficient and rated to flow less than the one on the probe.
The compressor in the thunderbird turbo coupe is biased heavily toward flow and much less for "high" pressure ratios - it actually is outside of spec at anything above a 2.4 pressure ratio (wheelspeed exceeds design limits) This is one of the reasons people with the tbird IHI turbos complain that they "blow up" if you run significantly more than stock boost sometimes. It is however, rated for 350cfm, but only at a pressure ratio of 1.8 (11-12psi) If you have a small or low-flowing engine that requires more than 12psi of boost @ ~300cfm, the t-bird compressor actually is *less* efficient and rated to flow less than the one on the probe.
I mapped out my 1.6L at 7000 or 7200 rpm, can't remember which and I figured the probe was good for about 250 cfm @ 13 psi on my motor, it looked to be better suited to 7-12psi based on my plots, and higher than 13 psi was under 60% efficiency, 13 was right on the borderline. The car ran great with that turbo, it spooled very fast with a set of mild cams and was able to hold 12-13 psi right through to 7500 rpm, and with relatively low intake temps. Pulled a nice 166 WHP at 7000 rpm at ~7.5 psi
I mapped the t-bird similar to the probe, and it had a decent operating range from 4.5-16 psi, and would flow just over 350 cfm at 16 psi. I assumed the t-bird had a higher A/R because of the length and diameter of the outlet as opposed to the actual size/diameter of the turbine itself.
I'm not actually running a t-bird, I'm running a compressor from unknown origin OEM application that flows approximately 60% of the way between what a probe and t-bird flow ( (I have the map for this one, I think it came from a diesel tractor or something originally). I'm using an Isuzu turbine housing, it's a small, light and compact housing, but because of the high nickel they seem to have really good durability. This turbo came new and fully assembled from the factory this way. It's oil cooled so no water fittings to worry about, flow is ~315 cfm.
I've just been driving with the new turbo for the last couple weeks, it's a bit laggier than the probe unit, but it's definitely making more power, it feels as powerful at 9 psi as the probe did at 12 psi.
Neil
08-07-2005, 06:45 PM
#66
1.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 525
Re: ups and downs of a ihi thunderbird turbo???
im a bit worryed that my ihi will be to small but im gonna give her a try worst thing that could happen is i dont like it and i sale if for 100 since i got if for 50 and just upgrade to the t3 sence there the same flange. What kind of exhuast flange shoudl i get to make my downpipe? will a t3 one work? thanks for any help
08-08-2005, 10:12 AM
#67
3.0 BAR
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,811
Re: ups and downs of a ihi thunderbird turbo???
The exhaust flange looks like a t3 flange, but notice it's a 4 bolt instead of a 5. I just sawzall the stock manifolds off and weld to that. Look up the t3 bolt pattern & measure. That's about all I can tell you.
t3 oil flange won't work. (You could drill new holes in it and it should if it doesn't get hot, stress & crumble!)
t3 oil flange won't work. (You could drill new holes in it and it should if it doesn't get hot, stress & crumble!)
09-24-2005, 01:08 AM
#69
1.0 BAR
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 378
Re: ups and downs of a ihi thunderbird turbo???
Originally Posted by ThingyNess
The IHI RHB5 series is available with two turbine wheels - a 52mm and 54mm, but the 52mm is far and away the most common. This is the one found on the t-bird, probe, and most subarus.
The A/R on the IHI turbos is stated in mm^2/mm, and RHB5 turbine housings are available in 9, 12, 15, 20, and 25, which correspond to 0.36, 0.48, 0.60, 0.78 and 1.00 in garrett units.
The T-bird and Probe both use the 52mm turbine wheel in a 20 (0.7 A/R housing. Be careful the isuzu housing you're using isn't for a 54mm wheel - the turbine housing will have either "5200" or "5400" cast into it, which indicates which wheel it was made for.
On one of my RHB5s that I have sitting around from a Subaru EA82t engine from the 80's, I have a "12" (0.4 A/R housing with a 52mm turbine wheel - man does it ever spool up fast down low and choke off big time in the upper rpm.
Some other interesting things of note:
The compressor in the probe is biased toward elimination of surge and high pressure ratios at relatively low flow. It is rated for ~300-325cfm, about the same as a DSM T25, but it can actually put out 325cfm at a pressure ratio of 2.7 (23-25psi of boost)
The compressor in the thunderbird turbo coupe is biased heavily toward flow and much less for "high" pressure ratios - it actually is outside of spec at anything above a 2.4 pressure ratio (wheelspeed exceeds design limits) This is one of the reasons people with the tbird IHI turbos complain that they "blow up" if you run significantly more than stock boost sometimes. It is however, rated for 350cfm, but only at a pressure ratio of 1.8 (11-12psi) If you have a small or low-flowing engine that requires more than 12psi of boost @ ~300cfm, the t-bird compressor actually is *less* efficient and rated to flow less than the one on the probe.
The A/R on the IHI turbos is stated in mm^2/mm, and RHB5 turbine housings are available in 9, 12, 15, 20, and 25, which correspond to 0.36, 0.48, 0.60, 0.78 and 1.00 in garrett units.
The T-bird and Probe both use the 52mm turbine wheel in a 20 (0.7
A/R housing. Be careful the isuzu housing you're using isn't for a 54mm wheel - the turbine housing will have either "5200" or "5400" cast into it, which indicates which wheel it was made for.On one of my RHB5s that I have sitting around from a Subaru EA82t engine from the 80's, I have a "12" (0.4
A/R housing with a 52mm turbine wheel - man does it ever spool up fast down low and choke off big time in the upper rpm. Some other interesting things of note:
The compressor in the probe is biased toward elimination of surge and high pressure ratios at relatively low flow. It is rated for ~300-325cfm, about the same as a DSM T25, but it can actually put out 325cfm at a pressure ratio of 2.7 (23-25psi of boost)
The compressor in the thunderbird turbo coupe is biased heavily toward flow and much less for "high" pressure ratios - it actually is outside of spec at anything above a 2.4 pressure ratio (wheelspeed exceeds design limits) This is one of the reasons people with the tbird IHI turbos complain that they "blow up" if you run significantly more than stock boost sometimes. It is however, rated for 350cfm, but only at a pressure ratio of 1.8 (11-12psi) If you have a small or low-flowing engine that requires more than 12psi of boost @ ~300cfm, the t-bird compressor actually is *less* efficient and rated to flow less than the one on the probe.
1) The IHI RHB5 VJ11 found on both the Probe and MX6 are rated at 190 cfm and are inefficient past 16 psi. if you'd like, I can show you the compressor map, if you know how to read them
2) The IHI/Warner Ishi RHB52 found on the T Birds flows 280 CFM and loses efficiency at 18 psi.
I don't know where you got your trim calculations from, but those are wrong too. if you'd like., I will post compressor maps as wel as visual proof via phots that your calculations on trim aren't correct.
09-24-2005, 01:15 AM
#70
1.0 BAR
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 378
Re: ups and downs of a ihi thunderbird turbo???
Originally Posted by bitchasscracker
Originally Posted by sixsick6
The reason the Probe manifold wouldn't fit is because the T Bird uses a small T3 exhaust side. The turbine is the same between the MX6, Probe and T Bird but the exhaust side is different on the T Bird. MX6 and Probe use the same exhaust side as each other. The wastegate is 8.7 psi, not 14. And the turbo itself starts to lose efficiency after 16 psi. FYI- there isn't much of a difference between 14 psi and 16 psi on this turbo.
Like I said, check my posts on here and you'll find all the info that you need including a "how to" for rebuilding WITH pictures.
Like I said, check my posts on here and you'll find all the info that you need including a "how to" for rebuilding WITH pictures.
the exhaust side ar is not the same on both
the turbine is not the same
and the boost is set at almost a bar not 8.7 you need to do research instead of just guessing becouse people know there ---- here your not on d-series.org and more toto
The exhaust housing on the MX6 and Probe is exactly the same, they are both IHI RHB5 VJ11's. The exhaust housing on the T Bird is a small T3. The turbine is the same on all three turbos. If you'd like I can post trim photos so you can eat your words with your rice.
You're wrong my friend, in fact, you couldn't be farther from the truth.
The wastegate is also the same between the VJ11 and the VC34 (T Bird) 8.7 psi.
