ups and downs of a ihi thunderbird turbo???
09-25-2005, 08:16 PM
#81
3.0 BAR
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,811
Re: ups and downs of a ihi thunderbird turbo???
Ya the bar & 16 were typos. Swap it to PR. 1.6 PR, close to the 8.7psi the stock wastegate setting.
measure it out to 70%, It still doesn't move 190cfm, it moves a tad less than 240cfm. I'm right, you're wrong, har har!
Speak for yourself, I've never blown anything I've ever touched. That includes one weak Honda Civic, two rarely turboed v6s, and the #2 & 3 turbo v6 in my particular engine family. There is noone to hold your hand while you do it... Unlike other applications.
They're not my maps, as stated in the FAQ they're Mark's. http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/ma.../mx6/page.html
measure it out to 70%, It still doesn't move 190cfm, it moves a tad less than 240cfm. I'm right, you're wrong, har har!
Speak for yourself, I've never blown anything I've ever touched. That includes one weak Honda Civic, two rarely turboed v6s, and the #2 & 3 turbo v6 in my particular engine family. There is noone to hold your hand while you do it... Unlike other applications.
They're not my maps, as stated in the FAQ they're Mark's. http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/ma.../mx6/page.html
09-26-2005, 02:54 AM
#82
1.0 BAR
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 378
Re: ups and downs of a ihi thunderbird turbo???
Proving that you have no idea how to read a compressor map. The spot you showed was barely 12 lbs/min, take 12bs/min and convert to CFM by dividing by .07
See what you come up with.
171.4 cfm
Now look at what I wrote, and pour yourself some green tea to go with your rice cakes.
You're wrong.
See what you come up with.
171.4 cfm
Now look at what I wrote, and pour yourself some green tea to go with your rice cakes.
You're wrong.
09-26-2005, 11:31 AM
#83
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 258
Re: ups and downs of a ihi thunderbird turbo???
Those t-birds have electronic boost control for the wastegate in addition to the regular spring and canister. That is why they can show more boost than what the wg spring is set for.
Erich
Erich
09-26-2005, 11:53 AM
#84
1.0 BAR
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 378
Re: ups and downs of a ihi thunderbird turbo???
The MX6 and Probe diaphragm (same as the T Bird) have a base boost of 8.5 psi and are electronically controlled by the boost control solenoid. The wastegate diaphragm should never see anything higher than 14 psi.
And here is the T Bird:
And here is the T Bird:
09-27-2005, 05:24 AM
#87
1.0 BAR
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 378
Re: ups and downs of a ihi thunderbird turbo???
What do you think a wastegate, turbine size, knock sensor and knock control unit, A/R of exhaust housing are for? If you think that you can get full boost all the way to redline with a Vj11, you're sadly mistaken. Maybe on your little 1.6 you can push heat all the way to redline, but I'd prefer to make power within the proper range without blowing a motor when I don't need to.
As said, they work well within their scope and when you push anything to its limit, it is a recipe for disaster.
As said, they work well within their scope and when you push anything to its limit, it is a recipe for disaster.
09-27-2005, 12:22 PM
#88
3.0 BAR
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,811
Re: ups and downs of a ihi thunderbird turbo???
70% is not very hot. That's the range in works in stock on the intended application to begin with. Does it have a problem stock? No. The F2T's make about 160bhp, the turbo is putting out about 160bhp worth of airflow stock (you have an F2t, you know that!?).
Ya, counting anything under about 70%, that's nuts (& granted, everything is going to be different, so some room for play upwards is needed); but 70% isn't some gross amount of bad unless you have some ungodly horrible engine that probably really shouldn't be seeing positive pressure to begin with. 70%, that's still leaps & bounds above many OEM fitted blowers once they get moving.
btw I don't own anything with a 1.6L engine.
Tho I do own a new JDM 3.0L 3vz-fe that's going to get either two vj11's, or two vj17's as a winter project. I guess you could cut that in half @ call it a 1.5L. Even at that it's not a problem for me, one bank still makes more power, lower than the tired stock civic sitting next to it in the driveway LoL! I just love hating my own civic. Great, economic backup car, but it's such a POS!!!
Ya, counting anything under about 70%, that's nuts (& granted, everything is going to be different, so some room for play upwards is needed); but 70% isn't some gross amount of bad unless you have some ungodly horrible engine that probably really shouldn't be seeing positive pressure to begin with. 70%, that's still leaps & bounds above many OEM fitted blowers once they get moving.
btw I don't own anything with a 1.6L engine.
Tho I do own a new JDM 3.0L 3vz-fe that's going to get either two vj11's, or two vj17's as a winter project. I guess you could cut that in half @ call it a 1.5L. Even at that it's not a problem for me, one bank still makes more power, lower than the tired stock civic sitting next to it in the driveway LoL! I just love hating my own civic. Great, economic backup car, but it's such a POS!!!
09-27-2005, 01:26 PM
#89
1.0 BAR
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 378
Re: ups and downs of a ihi thunderbird turbo???
I've rest my case a long time ago. An efficient turbo will allow a ballpark of 5-10 hp per lb of boost increase, the vj11 allows for barely 2 hp per lb and has been proven time after time. This is not to say that it is a shitty turbo, but there are better, more efficienct turbos for anyone looking for serious boost, which you obviously aren't.
If you know anything about compressor efficiency, you'll know that you want to stay as close to the "island" as possible. Notice that the efficiency range is 75, 74, 73, "70", "65", "60". If this doesn't clue you in to realizing that this turbo isn't all that efficienct when pushed past its limits, then I don't know what does.
It's a responsive turbo which is capable of good numbers at low rpm and decent numbers midrange. If you were to use it on a small 1.6, you'd yield way better results than using it on the intended motor, a 2.2.
It's a great turbo for beginners.
If you know anything about compressor efficiency, you'll know that you want to stay as close to the "island" as possible. Notice that the efficiency range is 75, 74, 73, "70", "65", "60". If this doesn't clue you in to realizing that this turbo isn't all that efficienct when pushed past its limits, then I don't know what does.
It's a responsive turbo which is capable of good numbers at low rpm and decent numbers midrange. If you were to use it on a small 1.6, you'd yield way better results than using it on the intended motor, a 2.2.
It's a great turbo for beginners.
09-27-2005, 03:34 PM
#90
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 258
Re: ups and downs of a ihi thunderbird turbo???
Just got back from the dyno with my twin IHI 5.0.
The bad news: I could not complete a full dyno pull- lean at over 3300 rpm. I have an inline fuel pump I will add to solve that.
The good news: At 3300 rpm, those little turbos were making 480 ft-lb of torque and climbing. HP naturally was low at 3300 (310 hp).
Aint nothing wrong with IHIs in my book. I still have alot of tweaking to do.
Erich
The bad news: I could not complete a full dyno pull- lean at over 3300 rpm. I have an inline fuel pump I will add to solve that.
The good news: At 3300 rpm, those little turbos were making 480 ft-lb of torque and climbing. HP naturally was low at 3300 (310 hp).
Aint nothing wrong with IHIs in my book. I still have alot of tweaking to do.
Erich
