no longer smooth engine
11-26-2007, 08:25 PM
#11
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Your mom's panties
Posts: 3,696
Re: no longer smooth engine
Here comes a ---- storm.
But there really isn't anything to worry about with some slap. So what if you have some excess blowby? You lose some power and have eggshaped cylinders, but the thing will hold together.
But there really isn't anything to worry about with some slap. So what if you have some excess blowby? You lose some power and have eggshaped cylinders, but the thing will hold together.
11-26-2007, 09:01 PM
#12
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 0
Re: no longer smooth engine
Originally Posted by one2many
one man's opinion over 50+ ? ill take the 50+ even if the one man is JD. 
Originally Posted by ryan89crx
.003-.0035 is too tight? my SRPs recommend .002-.0025....is that no good?
Just for ***** and giggles, though, call up JE and tell them what SRP you have and ask for piston to wall for 400 whp. They won't tell you .002-.0025. I was told .0045 for my 85mm bore ~500 whp LS that won't see near the combustion pressure or thermal loading that a 400-450 whp D16 sees. The piston expands, and it has to go somewhere. Does yours go right up against the bore and slag itself, or is everything groovy?
THink about what I just said, then open up a Helms and take a peek at stock piston-wall and ring end gap clearances. Now you know why stock pistons are the weak link... can you think of anyone who uses stock pistons with clearances loosened up like they do Vitaras? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that Ching Chong Meow piston company of China is not amking a better piston than OEM Honda... the people who buy the cheap Vitara are reaping the rewards of correctly building their engines (and of super low CR).
11-26-2007, 10:05 PM
#13
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 468
Re: no longer smooth engine
i knew that worm/fuzzy sensation towards you was "normal." 
i see what your saying. with the new 75.5mm everyone seems to think that .003/.0035 is "optimal." the reason everyone had such a big gap was only b/c the pistons were 75mm and you were at the mercy of the block when it came to p2w clearance. only reason fjt runs ~.006 is b/c thats what he had.
i see what your saying. with the new 75.5mm everyone seems to think that .003/.0035 is "optimal." the reason everyone had such a big gap was only b/c the pistons were 75mm and you were at the mercy of the block when it came to p2w clearance. only reason fjt runs ~.006 is b/c thats what he had.
11-26-2007, 11:08 PM
#14
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 0
Re: no longer smooth engine
Originally Posted by one2many
only reason fjt runs ~.006 is b/c thats what he had.
Every single record holding highest power Vitara engine has had .006+
11-27-2007, 12:00 AM
#15
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 468
Re: no longer smooth engine
not so. taken from :1.
i guess he had a 400+whp with .004.
Originally Posted by fast2camciv
(linked here from h-t)
i was running .004 in my own personal build, since then i have assembled 4 more vitara blocks (all 75mm) with 2 being .004, one being .003, and another being .005. all of them perform very nicely (not a single one smokes or has exessive blow by) and i havent heard one motor that had any more slap than the others (wich leads me back to fjt's theory thats its not slap, that its the floating wrist pin making the noise) i just set up my personal gsr block last night with wiseco's and im running .0035. i personally like running .003-.004 on my turbo blocks. granted it probably wont see 200k but it will get me optimal performance for a good 30-40k before needing a rebuild...and by then i will be on to bigger and better things lol longevety of a motor is not as much a concern to me that it might be to others. hope that helps...btw jfk is running .008 on his (the most i have seen) and his is not strictly a drag car, at one point it was a dd...
i was running .004 in my own personal build, since then i have assembled 4 more vitara blocks (all 75mm) with 2 being .004, one being .003, and another being .005. all of them perform very nicely (not a single one smokes or has exessive blow by) and i havent heard one motor that had any more slap than the others (wich leads me back to fjt's theory thats its not slap, that its the floating wrist pin making the noise) i just set up my personal gsr block last night with wiseco's and im running .0035. i personally like running .003-.004 on my turbo blocks. granted it probably wont see 200k but it will get me optimal performance for a good 30-40k before needing a rebuild...and by then i will be on to bigger and better things lol longevety of a motor is not as much a concern to me that it might be to others. hope that helps...btw jfk is running .008 on his (the most i have seen) and his is not strictly a drag car, at one point it was a dd...
11-27-2007, 01:35 AM
#16
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,976
Re: no longer smooth engine
Originally Posted by Joseph Davis
SRP is a low silicon variant of JE. They don't expand as much as a normal forging, or for that matter a casting like the Vitara that gets thermally loaded up.
Just for ***** and giggles, though, call up JE and tell them what SRP you have and ask for piston to wall for 400 whp. They won't tell you .002-.0025. I was told .0045 for my 85mm bore ~500 whp LS that won't see near the combustion pressure or thermal loading that a 400-450 whp D16 sees. The piston expands, and it has to go somewhere. Does yours go right up against the bore and slag itself, or is everything groovy?
THink about what I just said, then open up a Helms and take a peek at stock piston-wall and ring end gap clearances. Now you know why stock pistons are the weak link... can you think of anyone who uses stock pistons with clearances loosened up like they do Vitaras? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that Ching Chong Meow piston company of China is not amking a better piston than OEM Honda... the people who buy the cheap Vitara are reaping the rewards of correctly building their engines (and of super low CR).
Just for ***** and giggles, though, call up JE and tell them what SRP you have and ask for piston to wall for 400 whp. They won't tell you .002-.0025. I was told .0045 for my 85mm bore ~500 whp LS that won't see near the combustion pressure or thermal loading that a 400-450 whp D16 sees. The piston expands, and it has to go somewhere. Does yours go right up against the bore and slag itself, or is everything groovy?
THink about what I just said, then open up a Helms and take a peek at stock piston-wall and ring end gap clearances. Now you know why stock pistons are the weak link... can you think of anyone who uses stock pistons with clearances loosened up like they do Vitaras? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that Ching Chong Meow piston company of China is not amking a better piston than OEM Honda... the people who buy the cheap Vitara are reaping the rewards of correctly building their engines (and of super low CR).
the pistons arent super snug in the block, but they arent sloppy. i ran them before at this gap and they seemed fine. when i pulled them out, there were no marks on the skirts like the clearance was too tight. but then again it was probably only making 220hp...
11-27-2007, 02:02 AM
#17
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,729
Re: no longer smooth engine
Originally Posted by Joseph Davis
My opinion is right in line with the majority of Vitara owners.
SRP is a low silicon variant of JE. They don't expand as much as a normal forging, or for that matter a casting like the Vitara that gets thermally loaded up.
Just for ***** and giggles, though, call up JE and tell them what SRP you have and ask for piston to wall for 400 whp. They won't tell you .002-.0025. I was told .0045 for my 85mm bore ~500 whp LS that won't see near the combustion pressure or thermal loading that a 400-450 whp D16 sees. The piston expands, and it has to go somewhere. Does yours go right up against the bore and slag itself, or is everything groovy?
THink about what I just said, then open up a Helms and take a peek at stock piston-wall and ring end gap clearances. Now you know why stock pistons are the weak link... can you think of anyone who uses stock pistons with clearances loosened up like they do Vitaras? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that Ching Chong Meow piston company of China is not amking a better piston than OEM Honda... the people who buy the cheap Vitara are reaping the rewards of correctly building their engines (and of super low CR).
SRP is a low silicon variant of JE. They don't expand as much as a normal forging, or for that matter a casting like the Vitara that gets thermally loaded up.
Just for ***** and giggles, though, call up JE and tell them what SRP you have and ask for piston to wall for 400 whp. They won't tell you .002-.0025. I was told .0045 for my 85mm bore ~500 whp LS that won't see near the combustion pressure or thermal loading that a 400-450 whp D16 sees. The piston expands, and it has to go somewhere. Does yours go right up against the bore and slag itself, or is everything groovy?
THink about what I just said, then open up a Helms and take a peek at stock piston-wall and ring end gap clearances. Now you know why stock pistons are the weak link... can you think of anyone who uses stock pistons with clearances loosened up like they do Vitaras? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that Ching Chong Meow piston company of China is not amking a better piston than OEM Honda... the people who buy the cheap Vitara are reaping the rewards of correctly building their engines (and of super low CR).
Just need to find a company that makes OE replacement pistons with floating pins.
11-27-2007, 05:39 AM
#18
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 217
Re: no longer smooth engine
Originally Posted by Joseph Davis
Do you mean the engine SOUNDS noisy, or that it RUNS rough?
and my goal is 350-400 so i made my p2w .004
so my question now is
- is that sound is natural with that p2w clearance ?
-is that good clearance is good for 350-400 whp ?
11-27-2007, 10:36 AM
#19
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Your mom's panties
Posts: 3,696
Re: no longer smooth engine
Good point about the wrist pins making noise... I've considered that to be what I think is my piston slap. One of the first things an older engine builder asked me when I let him listen to my engine cold was "Were the wrist pins pressed in or do they have little clips?" He told me floating wrist pins are noisy, and I shouldn't worry about slap because there's not much you can do about it anyway, and it doesn't really matter. That guy has a built Galaxie and Torino, and he's had a ton of other projects too. As I said, Diesel noises ftw.
11-27-2007, 11:31 AM
#20
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 0
Re: no longer smooth engine
I thought fast2camciv was running .006, and is where I based part of my claim. That is the post I was thinking of, but I pwned myself misremembering the details. hany, it sounds like your engine isn't unusual, it should be fine.
