Holset VGT HE351VE Controller
 

Hey there. I've gotten so many E-mails from my Youtube post, that I've decided to start a thread following the progress on my Holset VGT controller. I'm developing a controller for the factory actuator on a HE351VE. First off, I'm sick of everyone wanting money rather than just getting satisfaction out of helping other people with their projects, so I will be totally open with everything and won't be doing this for profit. This controller will work with any car since it is a standalone controller, although it would have to be custom tuned. I'm using mine on a 95 Eclipse GS-T with a 2.3L. It uses a 3 bar gm map sensor (I suppose any would work) a programmable micro controller, and an RC car speed controller. I soldered directly to the motor on the circuit board, bypassing all of the factory electronics. After some experimentation, I found out that when wired the correct way, the motor behaves just like any other brush-less RC car motor. I have also drilled and tapped a hole in the actuator to mount a potentiometer in order to have position feedback. Additionally, I have successfully programmed the microcontroller to generate a PWM signal to instruct the speed controller once a voltage was reached with the MAP sensor. I will post a picture of how I wired it soon. l have more details and updates to come. Any thoughts?

I got your email in regards of the CAN or PWM signal.
I emailed a Cummins engineer. He's supposed to get back to me.
Dodge uses the CAN protocol. We use the SAE J1939 protocol. I don't know if it makes a difference.

I know for a fact that SAE J1939 is just a specification of CAN protocol. It is the most commonly used protocol in the automotive/agricultural industries. There are however, several variants as you can see at SAE J1939 Standards Collection Regardless, I just thought it would make this project a little easier if the actuator could accept PWM signals since on the Dephi website it almost sounds like these things can accept both PWM and CAN out of the box. Let me know what the engineer says.

Very nice and glad to see someone using the OE electronics for VGT control. A couple simpe questions regarding the motor control.

- I see in the manual for the motor controller link: BEC Output 6A 1A? Does the RC motor controller use a constant voltage or variable voltage to actuate the VGT mechanism?

I have a programable controller that I think I can make work but I need to know what the motor requierments are V and A. Dont want to fry the motor by guessing.... Your doing great work thank you.

I honestly don't know the power requirements of the motor. All I know is that I have run it extended periods of time and at varying speeds without trouble . I also know that the speed controller (ESC) does vary the voltage going to the motor. Its hard to tell by how much. Maybe an oscilloscope would help but I don't have one. I'm not really worried about it since as I said before, I've run it for extended periods of time without trouble. (about 2 hours straight at medium speed.)
What programmable controller do you have?

I have this Coolingmist Water Injection, alcohol injection and Methanol Injection systems

Check out the PDF instructions, its like a bunch of user programable logic gates. I dont think you need a scope to determine the DCV requierment. Just a simple DVOM to find the high and low. O-scope would work too but maybe not nessesary.

A DVOM isn't fast enough to pick up the instantaneous voltage. Remember the ESC is switching the windings of the motor on and off very fast in sequence. A DVOM just jumps around all over the place trying to make sense of it. I've tried.

Obviously I know ---- about the ESC. Found this and it helped electronic speed controllers (esc) for electric powered radio controlled model cars, boats and airplanes. We have the complete range of electronic speed controllers from schulze and mgm for electric RC models

So your using PWM to control the motor. So yea obviously an o-scope to catch the DC% and vdc. What happens if you just feed it straight volts or 100%dc? Does it have to use PWM? I wonder if simply varying the amount of vdc to the motor without PWM would get to do the same as PWM does (vary VGT opening speed)?

I got an email from the Cummins engineer. Sadly, is not their field. They seemed pretty interested in the project though!
I went and did some more research and found a phone number to contact a tech from Delphi. He told me that all Cummins units are CAN only. The only controller that uses PWM from the factory is the International DT466 and DT530. I have a buddy in an International dealer that can hook me up with one of them. I can PM you the Delphi tech phone number if you're interested. He seemed pretty knowledgeable about the controller. Let me know if you can use the International controller.

I assume you mean 100% DC but still switching between the 3 coils inside of it. I guess you could. In fact, I think that's what happens when I push the ESC to full throttle. One of the coils would only be energized one-third of the time though because in order to make the motor move, the 3 coils have to energize in sequence. If they don't, the motor will just stay locked in one place. Remember this is a brushless motor.

That's awesome. You sure have some connections... I'm 95% certain that the actuator I have doesn't respond to PWM. I also highly doubt the International version bolts onto this turbo. Besides, the route that I'm taking is more fun anyway. Still, thank you for asking him.

Only a few more days and I'll receive my new actuator. I'll then be able to upload pictures to show my progress.

Finally got the actuator. I unfortunately already desoldered the board before I saw this.
The actuators have a ST72561 44-pin Microcontroller. It seems that there are specific PWM I/O pins that can be tapped into. Does anyone want to try sending some PWM to these pins? I followed the traces and they are accessible at the top of the board so it doesn't have to be removed. I have them circled in the picture. Somebody please try them. I'm VERY curious how the controller will respond.
Attachment 6393

I can maybe get it going on my Honda. I can do it through EGR control. I don't know if you're aware of the Honda world using PWM electronic boost controllers. It's a small air valve that opens and closes. It uses 31Hz I believe. Is there any other way to send the signal to the controller? I have a couple of them, if you want I can send you one for testing.
I wonder how they would wire the VGT controller to use Honda's EGR signal...?
Check this out and let me know if you think it might work
s300 Boost Control

I suppose you could try it. Its probably a shot in the dark though. Who knows what frequency its looking for... My Picaxe is capable of many PWM signals but I'm out of untouched VGT actuators.

Well, after purposefully mutilating the actuator, I've got it all wired up now to work with the ESC. Here's a pic.
Attachment 6392

I got the potentiometer installed for position feedback. Now its programming time.
Attachment 6370
Attachment 6371

Nice!!
Were you guys aware of the wiring?
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/7215/vgt2.png
1 and 2 are key-on constant 12v and ground.
3 and 4 are the J1939 + and -
Don't know if it helps.

I actually was already aware of that. Thank you though. Cool desktop.

any new updates?

I just got a replacement for my defective MAP sensor yesterday so last night I finished the programming.
I'm lazy, so I'll copy what I wrote on my Youtube video:
The actuator not only moves to multiple positions, but it does so accurately and is self correcting. In the beginning of the video you can see me forcing the vanes down. During which, the controller tries to fight me and then repositions back in the same location. I have 22 output voltage ranges from a GM 3-bar MAP sensor corresponding to 22 vane positions. So all I really have to do now is do some dyno runs and tweak the vane positioning to my car's power band.

This is looking like a complete win!

Would this work on a Dodge ram cummins?

This turbo is off of an 09 Dodge Ram with a Cummins. Are you referring to an older one? If so, then yes. It could be used on anything.

Yes it'a an 04.5 so if i understand you right, you locate the right wire in the map sensor and connect it there?

Hats off to you bro!... this is way cool!!... I just won an HE351VE for only 9.99 plus shipping on e-bay, can you believe it?? the turbo was listed only as "Cummins 6.7" or something like that with no reference to the brand name Holset or the Dodge truck it came from and I guess that's why no one else saw it and bid on it... I was the only one!!! Yay!! ...

I was considering ditching the electronics and using a regular pneumatic actuator as Aero did (or buy Fleece's actuator but they never got to respond my e-mail asking for details, guess they're too busy to take care of small cuatomers like me) ... now I definitely want to know what I can do to follow your lead... i?m already drooling at the tuning posibilities that your controller opens up for my own project...

You've stated you're not doing this for money, got my respect but I understand you already put some hard work hours on this project so... why don't you choose a charity that will accept Paypal depostis and I'll be glad to chip in as a token of my appreciation for any help I may get from you to build my own controller... does that sound fair to you?

Thanks man... keep up the good work!

I'm too lazy to pick a charity. Just ask specific questions and I'd be glad to answer.

that is ------- awesome. I love stuff like this. I gotta scheme up on how to integrate this into Megasquirt 3 for when I roach my HX35's and upgrade.

Alright... thanks for the quick response...

Can you provide us with a detailed parts list and a smallish set of instructions to build our own controllers?

I'm assuming once the hardware is done you can provide us with the code too... I have never programmed a PIC before but it is my understaning that Picaxe, Arduino and some others like those are somehow easier to program for noobs like myself.

Thanks again, I can't wait to start building my own!!!

Just an update, I am extremely busy with school right now. I should have some free time in the next few days to really sit down and get into some details. No luck with the PWM route yet..

Thanks for the update... I check the forum often... I want to build my controller yesterday!!! :)

So, If I understood right... you're saying that even after your success with the Picaxe and the MAP sensor input you still want to try the factory electronics?

Would you care elaborating on why you find that route still more appealing over you current design using the microcontroller... am I missing anything the factory board will do that your design won't?

Easier to get running? (no modifications) Cheaper? More reliable?... Just curiousity that arises from plain ignorance... remember I have never programmed a pic.. let alone understand about generating PWM and interacting with these complex electronics...

Hey dude, congrats on getting results with the factory motor, awesome stuff. I was thinking of using a servo to move the arm on the turbo but I'm a bit scared of the heat getting to it so I thought of doing the same and came across this thread while researching and I got a question or two.

Why did you feel it necessary to use the pot for position feedback? From what I learnt in control systems, the control loop would have MAP sensor input and VGT rack position as output with maximum boost as target. I can understand having it as an additional sensor to make sure the VGT rack's moving but it would add to the complexity of the programming and I personally see no need for it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's a waste of time but can you elaborate on why it's there? Are you moving the rack to X position for Y boost?

Second question: I've taken the five screws that hold the board to the 'lid' of the actuator unit but the board won't budge, do the 3 black round screw head looking things have anything to do with it? Do I have to unsolder the motor from the board to remove the board?

Last thing, the microcontroller on the actuator's board might have PWM pins but I don't think they'd be programmed to accept inputs from third parties. If they are used it's maybe for the controllers that were PWM controlled? Props for going down this path, it's not something I'd dare try. It'd be nice if it was as simple as feeding a PWM signal to somewhere on the board.

Hi there Skylar,

From what I've read here or in other forums, yes... you will have to desolder the motor to remove the PCB... and... just to make you even happier :) the motor is pressed into the housing... so getting it out won't be easy either.

As to your concern of using a servo in this hi-temp environment... well... you know the CHRA has ports for engine coolant to run through the actuator housing right? ... I don't know if even with this cooling the servo would fry though, internal temp should not exceed 90-95ºC but that would probably be more than some of the plastic components in regular servos can stand... it would seem to me that if the PCB components can survive in 90-95ºC, a hi-temp servo (if such thing even exists) would survive as well but that's only as I see it...

The best approach for sure is using the factory motor as It's been done here by CivicTsi as it was surely designed/tested to live happily in this enviroment. I'm just hoping that actuator failure due to hi-temps is NOT the reason so many of these turbos have been replaced under warranty at the dealers', I know it's excessive soot blocking the VGT system which triggers a service signal or prevents the turbo to work properly and then dealers just replace the whole unit under warranty.

My 0.2$

Cheers man, Do the 3 screw head looking things have anything to do with it?

Responding to your edited post:

If I were to use servo, I would mount it out of the way of the heat, well not in the midst of the heat. Probably on a bracket off the compressor housing, not bolted to the CHRA like the OEM actuator. I'm really just tossing ideas around at this point because I know RC servos are real easy to control (already have a real simple board with a PIC controlling a servo). Although controlling a RC ESC is no different to controlling an RC servo, I see the difficulty in setting end points so the motor isn't fighting the endpoints of the VGT rack, which I guess is the point of the feedback pot in CivicTsi's design.

I've got some experimenting to do I guess.

I'd like to know abut your progress as well Skylar... I'm really interested in learning to program microcontrollers and I know I'll get there somehow... later on... in the meantime I'll keep learning about analogic electronics and soon, hopefully, I'll jump into digital electronics and PICs...the possibilities are fascinating and endless for DIY guys like ourselves...

I agree with you on using the servo away from the exhaust housing, proably mounted on the compressor housing as you suggest, but keep in mind that the torque needed to actuate the VGT mechanism reliably is obtained through a couple of gears inside the actuator... I don't know if stand-alone servos are capable of such push/pull forces... considering levers to multiply force? How u addressing this?

Pushing the actuator arm around by hand, it seemed easy enough but it's been a while since I played with the he351ve. I'm guessing a 1/10th scale servo won't do it but a big sucker off a 1/4 scale should do it. but, that's to find out in testing.

With motors, especially, AC motors/brushless, it's easier to build them as small units with little torque and high rpm. To build low rpm, high torque units it requires 4 times the material to make is twice as slow or something. So they just end up gearing it like in the 351ve's actuator. I learned this in one unit at school but I didn't really like it/get into it. I might have it backwards but it goes something like what I explained.

I was thinking a servo used to control a wastegate flap on an internally gated turbo might struggle since there's a heap of pressure in the exhaust housing acting on the flap trying to force it open, but in the case of the VGT rack, I'm not sure if the pressure in the exhaust housing will force the rack open and whether it'll behave differently between bench testing and actual operation on a car.

You don't really need a huge understanding of electronics to do anything like this. I didn't really do analogue electronics, did a little bit of digital but I was really confused learning it and didn't really stick in my head. I just learned it all again while playing with PIC's although it did help having previously done it. I can recommend a book or two to read or write up a crash course in PIC's if you want.

The factory system is far more accurate. Don't get me wrong, the ESC method works great and does the job, but the factory one does the job better. (Plus no holes would need to be drilled)

Why is it so hard to use the factory system?

The Pot is there for self-correction. Remember, there is a lot of force from the exhaust trying to push this open. Something needs to push back. If you give the factory actuator 12 volts and try to move it, you will notice that it fights back to stay in the correct position. The pot is just a simple replacement for the factory Hall-effect sensors. Yes, my program is X position for Y boost. The 3 round plastic things are just plastic welds for the Hall-effect sensors. They do not need removed to take the circuit board out. Besides the screws, all you have to do is desolder the 6 pins for the motor.