I can't really see whats going on in that picture. Can you clarify please?

What do you guys think of buying this and welding the turbo's oddball flange on to it? Since it is a spacer, it'll add block clearance at the same time as adding a wastegate.

I also have the dimensions of this flange if anybody wants them.
Attachment 5770

He's used a manifold like this and made a flange adaptor that also moves the turbo in front on the manifold and makes it a low mount. It's not really a low mount but the gas moves down into it, like a low mount. What I'm trying to ask is, will having a pipe with a few bends between the merge collector and the turbine housing hurt spool/scavenging effect?

Apparently, the servo still works.??? I had changed from a 16F84A(most basic chip around) to 16F88(chip with ADC's) and switched to the big servo and a new power supply. Went back to old power supply and didn't work so I changed chips and it now works. I'm gonna try using the 16F88 with a pin that's not connected to the ADC. Servo doesn't seem to show any signs of being broken either.:D

I would much rather buy that than fab. a manifold. and with me being pedantic, I would spend forever making a manifold and never get it done.

I don't think the bends would affect the spool much as long as the interior of those welds were smooth. I would have some reservations on having a manifold that looks like a french horn though. There are so many welded joints in that, I'd be afraid the weight of the turbo would get the better of it, causing it to crack over time.

Ah screw it.. I'm just going to break down and make a manifold from scratch. I already have CAD drawings of both flanges and have access to a CNC plasma cutter and welder, so why not? I'm a little unsure if a well-built manifold can hold the weight of this turbo indefinitely without cracking. What do you guys think?

Well, I think it's really a mater of how far it'll be from the head. I suppose if its only a few inches of tubing between head and turbo, the manifold will withstand passive weight (or whatever engineers might call it when the car is just sitting) heat induced expansion and contraction, transient g forces (when your manifold and turbine are cherry red from spirited driving and then you hit a humongous pothole or an unseen speed bump at 70 miles an hour.... this thing is 48lbs isn't it...!!! ... i supposes the closer to the head, the better... if your location is a little distant from head though, I'd suggest bracing the turbo somewhere else to the engine and create at least one "triangle" with engine, turbo manifold and the brace itself... that's my 0.02

Possible brace set up
 

I'm not a native english speaker so I couldn't come up with beter words to describe my idea, hope it's easy to understand

Oh!!... and please remember that, just as turbo head flanges (well designed ones, that is) the holes must be oversize, bigger than the bolt diameter, otherwise you will defeat the purpose of the whole bracing thing and your manifold will crack even faster due to the extra stress caused by a very "dogged" brace.

Attachment 5769
http://www.gurneyflap.com/Resources/DSC03767.jpg
https://www.agtronicmotorsport.com/g...20A4%20250.jpg
Turboedmav's words in pictures.:)

I wouldn't rely on manifold alone to hold my turbo up especially with the turbo way in front of the engine, like, next to the waterpump front. I want to make a manifold but it'll be too much downtime so I think I'll do what was done to the SR20 I posted earlier initially then make a mani. later.

What material? 304, 316, mild or even 321? Everyone in America seems to use 316, everyone here says use mild steel and ceramic coat. What thickness, sch 10/40, 14ga? I'm leaning towards mild in 12-14ga since strength at elevated temperatures is not a concern if the turbo is braced up like the pics?

I like the first picture, where you can clearly see the flexible joints!... these braces are the fancy version of my "barebones" idea... :) ... of course one can get as picky or as practical as one wishes... (I'll be making me a fancy one later on... all "blinged" up with shiny bits of stainless ... who said the ghetto approach can't look expensive? ... :) Thanks for the pictures, saved me a lot of complicated explanations in case anyone asked for details...

Looking at the first pic again, you can't really see that it triangulates down to support the weight. Looks sorta flimsy from that picture alone.
Attachment 5768

What I really liked from the fist picture is the flexible joints... perhaps the physical arrangement is not the best I'd think of myself but it sure allows for manifold expansion and contraction AND prevents high tensile and compressive loads on the manifiold when red hot... sometimes we overegineer a bit... don't we? .... but guess it's always better be safe than picking up the pieces when something goes wrong!! and I certainly want those pieces to be CAR pieces, not my own... yikes!!

I build a manifold for a 12v 5.9 cummins engine in a race combine,made it of 304(it's diesel,for gas use 316) and brached it from the head flange to the turbo flance.
It resieves some hard G and stil holds.http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL163.../382976538.jpg[/IMG]
Sorry,have no pics of the brache,but please do brache it,it'l crack.....

Hello all.I'm one of those diesel guys.. lol. I have read this and it is a great thing!!!... but i never read any about the fact that this turbo is also an engine brake... the first 20% or so of the VGT travel is exhaust brake. Just wanted everyone to know this. ( I may have over looked it if it was mentioned). I just got my brand new 351ve in and i am thankful for this info as that the Fleece Perf. controller will not help me. My challenge is to use the EX brake feature of this turbo and for that i will need to Ref - TPS, Brake, MAP i seems that Civi's idea will support this, i have all of the parts ordered and will give updates as i go. THANK YOU EVERYONE!!

Give Fleece about a month and they will have a universal controller for this turbo... I'm waiting (anxiously)

They told me that it would take an unknown amount of time to get ready, who knows maybe theyll surprise me with a phone call. By the way the map sensor on a 24 valve dodge has the highest functional range of any map sensor, 60 ps i. I don't think you car guys will have to worry about that but i will use every bit of that.

What is the latest on this project CivicTsi?

Ok everyone. I'm back in business. Had a lot of things go on in the past couple months. The setup is done and installed. I'm going to screw with it on Monday and see how the controller works. I hooked a servo tester up to the ESC to manually move the vanes and was not impressed. The most I could get out of the turbo was 5psi at about 5000 rpm. I didnt take the motor any higher than that yet. I am rather disappointed. I'm suspecting I have leak in the manifold since it is the first one I've ever made from scratch. I'm sure that would do it. I'll check Monday.

Any updates?

Is there a chance you could snag a pic of this?

Sadly, I have not been able to test the controller because of leaks in the custom manifold I made. It has been too much of a hassle and school is starting very soon for me, so I have since gone another direction by going with a Holset HE351CW which has a T3 flange, making it easier and cheaper for me since I can use any normal T3 manifold. I'm pretty sure the controller would've worked ok. As for now though, the VGT project is on hold. Perhaps in the future once I finish college, I will complete the project. Sorry guys! Best of luck to those pressing on! PM me if you have any questions and feel free to use/change my program.

-Josh

Oh maaaan, I was so looking forward to this. :(

I have a car to put this turbo on now so I'm seriously looking at making a manifold.

Anybody see how the potentiometer gets feedback from the gear system? I would think it has to have a gear itself to get spun?

Nevermind. Been analyzing this...i guess you have to cut a key way so that the shafts interlock. Now to figure out how to do that with tight tolerances.

I would be interested in seeing this as well, as I am building this system too

Read the thread, however no info on the reliability of the vgt on a gas motor, so the question is how long have you had it on and miles driven, issues?

Not looking for a 1/4 mile turbo. but something for the track. with quick spool and hp potential 3 liter.

TIA

You do realize he never ran it...right?

Gentlemen,
I am currently working on a feedback look design that would work off of the impeller speed and use EGT and AFR as failsafes. Looking at using amplification circuits for selecting the desired shaft speed and then using EGT and AFR to shutdown the feedback look forcing the vanes to open. If you get the hall effect sensor to interface with your microcontroller, please let me know. My goal is to keep the setup as simple yet accurate as possible.

Hello gents,

I am looking to build a controller that runs off of numerous inputs, and uses numerous fail safes. As much as I have thought this out, it should work well. Although, the MAP sensor certainly is an idea as well (thought that out fully too). The reason I am choosing numerous inputs is so the controller can check itself, and balance the end effect on the turbo. This will create a more stable, and more easily tuneable car in the end since the turbo will be more consistently controlled.

I run one of these turbos on my Cummins Deisel truck (this isn't the OEM turbo though, its custom retrofit to a 12 valve), and will be using this on a Cobalt SS as well. I have a second Cobalt SS R&D car set up, with a built motor so we can push the turbo to the limits. Also will eventually be using this on my Civic road course car. So, needless to say, I will have plenty of R&D scheduled.

I fully expect this turbo to be a monster. I expect this turbo to support 550-600whp, and full spool by 3500rpm.

A few things...
In regards to the small size of the exhaust housing being an exhaust brake. this works on diesels due to their larger displacement. The smaller size of the housing on a gas motor would help with spool.

The carbon issue seen on diesels will not be nearly as prominent on a gas motor, unless you run it stupidly rich. Diesel is a sooty, dirty fuel in comparison to gas. But, i think the sweep of the vanes would be a cool idea, and could never hurt.

I like the pictures of the bracing. With the Cobalt being set up as it is, I am going to have to build a long tube manifold to get it to fit behind the motor, and that will create alot of stress on the manifold, so I have been thinking out some bracing strategies.

Keep an eye out for us to release something in the spring.

CAN-BUS Shield - SparkFun Electronics

I realize this all started with using a picaxe but somehow i think arduino might be a more viable option now instead or ripping out the OEM controller

after looking at pictures (since i'm still waiting on my turbo to show up) I realized how I believe the stock controller was designed to work as far as controlling the motor itself.
the magnet on the gear does infact go over an IC Hall sensor. its off to the side of the board but measuring the approximate distance it goes over it perfectly.
this sensor is there to identify the minimum and maximum turning range for the motor, when the system is started up the sweeping cycle for cleaning is also there to calibrate where that min/max position is. then when it needs to make an adjustment based on sensor input it just counts the number of pulses from the Hall sensor ring in either direction from the min/max point.

there was some debate weather a picaxe would be fast enough to measure the hall sensor output. considering there are plenty of arduino boards running bldc controllers which run at only 16mhz slightly less than the 20mhz picaxe that civic was using it shouldn't be an issue at all. although if it were, you could easily use a Maple instead which runs a 75mhz arm but I think thats overkill.
I was actually trying to decide how many inputs would be optimal atleast for a diesel truck owner.
1. min/max hall
2.MAP
3.Turbo speedo
4. pwm comparator from motor hall sensors
5.throttle activation
6.possibly a drive pressure sensor from the exhaust as well

got my turbo a few days ago cracked it open and played with the gears the magnet on the gear and the single hall sensor is actually there to identify the midpoint. cycling it back and fourth its about 22 teeth and the magent is right there around 11.

I'm sure I am talking to myself but atleast I can keep track of what I am doing.

You aren't just talking to yourself, haha. I am working on a controller as well. We are looking to use an arduino.

I think for a diesel truck, you could simply run it off of the MAP sensor, and that could be a standalone in itself. With so little powerband, and so much exhaust gas, it wouldn't matter if you had full boost right away, in fact, it would be desirable. You program the controller not to exceed a certain voltage from the MAP sensor, and you get it to try to maintain that. Say I want 22 psi (265kpa including atmosphere), and that equals 4.5V (number used for illustration only), you program the controller to move the vanes according to the input voltage. Anything more than 4.5V input, have it open, anything less, have it close. It would balance itself... sure its crude, but depending on what diesel you have, more than likely the diesel is pretty crude in itself.

I have this turbo on a 12V Cummins. The entire motor is run from boost reference line from the intake manifold to the high pressure fuel pump. EVERYTHING is air load dependent, and it works just fine. Its simple, not exactly crude. To keep the controller in check, you could wire in an EGT monitor to the controller, and if EGT's start to get out of hand, it could override the MAP sensor input, and open the vanes a bit.

I think for a diesel, the MAP would work splendidly. I think for a car, its a different story, since you can't have the vanes completely closed, but you also can't have it completely open, and you don't want full boost at 2k rpm.

These are just some thoughts I have had. We are working on a diesel controller with a standalone MAP sensor, and a car controller with a minimum of 3 inputs. Like I said in my previous post, I have plenty of cars to try it on, and I will test the diesel controller on my truck if need be. Right now I have it all set up mechanically on the truck, and it works wonderfully. Just looking for more fuel.

well if i wanted to just run based on map i could simply just lop off all the extra stuff and just use a spring loaded WG,
as it is i run a 24v so there are allot more electronics going on. the pin layout i showed so far is the minimum needed, the speed sensor is just to prevent overspeed at specific map pressures. slamming 100% closed is only ideal for EB. you still want to aim for a 1:1 ratio on boost to exhaust. the 6.7 trucks look at exhaust pressures as far as i know.

if i could find a diagram of the ssop32 labeled 25346075 I could probably come up with a way to bypass the can chip. would minimize some of the hardware and wiring possibly.

ST72F561J9 datasheet(1/262 Pages) STMICROELECTRONICS | 8-BIT MCU WITH FLASH OR ROM, 10-BIT ADC, 5 TIMERS, SPI, LINSCI , ACTIVE CAN
some of the pinouts of the can chip are somewhat obvious as to what they are intended for.
and apparently we could even reprogram the chip as well.
ST72561J6 - STMicroelectronics

I have no intention to use the OEM canbus. Too confusing for me, haha. Sure would be nice though. But, to get the canbus to work, you have to have the same inputs, if I am not mistaken. For older cars like I plan to use this on, we don't have MAP, MAF, and all the other sensors needed for all the canbus inputs. Much less an OBD2 computer...

you would have to use the arduino canbus shield to feed those inputs to the OEM controller, but once you reprogram that IC you wont have the issue of proprietary canbus messages.

Or, we could get rid of the onboard canbus, and just use the arduino to control the motor with a standard duty cycle. Basically, inputs to arduino, converts to duty cycle. Plus the motor shield is cheaper than the canbus shield.

Obviously 2 excellent ways we could go here. I like the canbus idea, but I think it complicates things. Plus, without the OEM chip in there, we have no need to run coolant lines to the turbo to cool the circuit board (I think the motor can handle the heat, but I could be wrong).

I will still run the coolant lines, maybe overkill but just seems like a good idea overall for what electronics are still going to be on the turbo, motor hall sensors etc. plus EGT's can spike up over 1400*F or more. I was thinking that even if i strip out the oem board to reuse the sensors and make a simple PCB to hold it all. my thinking is using the hall sensors would be better for calibration instead of using back emf to detect an overload when the motor sweeps too far. since we know how many steps there are and you have the sensor and magnet on the gear for the 50% mark you merely have to sweep back and fourth incrementally to find the 50%