Anti Lag
 

Is it possible to use a shot of N2O to spool the turbo during clutch depression? I know if could be rigged up, but would you have a problem with the N2O going back into the combustion chamber rather than just spooling the turbo? I tried searching, but everytime I click on the damn search button it takes me to a blank page...

Re: Anti Lag
 

hot hot hot turbo + cyrogenic frozen gases (lol) = totally awesome destruction of expensive parts.



so yeah do it and def get it on camera.

Re: Anti Lag
 

What do you mean by spooling the turbo w/o it going into the combustion chamber?
If you wanted to run nos and turbo, there are pressure activated switches you can run with nos.
Or rpm switches.
Search ebay for them.

Re: Anti Lag
 

i think what he is saying is that he wants to blow the compresed n2o over the compressor fan to keep it spinning while shifting......

I dont think the N2o will have enough force to help at all, and the whole really hot turbo , blus super cold gass is a really bad idea.....

Re: Anti Lag
 

He wants to spin a large turbo off the line and not have lag that you normally would so he wants to know if nitrous can spool it at the line to avoid building boost and having it right away. No, because you need load on the turbo to cause it to spool so a transbrake or something is needed. It's possible, but need something to hold you back as you're putting load on.


JP

Re: Anti Lag
 

the cold side of a turbo dont get that hot.

Re: Anti Lag
 

Hooray Captain Obvious! ::) ;) :-*

Get a stutterbox(rofl) or an auto tranny and brake boost it if you're going for a purely drag car, otherwise you're retarded for using too big of a turbo. Some guys do use nitrous injection IN THE MOTOR NOT THE ------- TURBO ::) to help spool between shifts, but during launch you don't need it anyway because traction is a good thing. If you really want anti-lag in the truest sense, look on some WRC pages as they use some pretty cool ---- to keep their snail spinning at all times. Sounds to me like you just wanted to look smart for your first post and ended up confusing people and looking kind of dumb lol. All these goddamn guys are using as big a turbo as they can find, but the truth of the matter is that you want to get away with the smallest possible turbo for your goals. An HX40 on a D16y8 doesn't gaurantee you're putting down 500whp for godsakes.

Re: Anti Lag
 

^wow don't get violent there...what I was asking was if you could use nitrous to directly spool the turbine instead of using an ALS to do it...didn't think about the thermal effects of the N2O though...anyway, as for running too big of a turbo, I'm not, I'm using a GT2871R with a .84 a/r on a 2zz-ge...I hit boost around 3.8-4k so I'm not in lag that long, I was just seeing if I could reduce the lag time further...I've read up on the rally style ALS systems (specifically those of the st205)...so I may end up going with something like that...the only reason I was asking about the N2O was because right now I'm using a PFC to run the engine, and it doesn't have an ALS/flatshift feature like some of the other standalones do...does anyone know if I could use a Megasquirt to operate a system like this?

Re: Anti Lag
 

isnt that ball bearing? it should slow down that much while the clutch is in for 5 seconds. my buddy has the same turbo with the 60something trim and even after you shut the car off you can hear the sucker whine down for 20 seconds or so.

Re: Anti Lag
 

=True statement.


about the anti lag...
I have some customers who reported making an amazing anti lag system with a simple hack of the clutch switch, basically making it cut the spark between shifts, resulting in an intentional backfire in the manifold that happens right as you release the clutch after each shift. I would love to test drive one. Sounds pretty turbo-destructive to me but it apparently works amazingly well and i know it's been a years old trick.

about ball bearings:
Alone, they're not responsible for enough spool up improvement to deserve being called an ANTI LAG system.
The new GT turbos are very fast spooling turbos but that's related to many other major improvements brought by garrett to their new GT lineup.
I have a gt3582R on my h22a, I think it lags, My old 60-1 with p trim twinscroll .58 a/r turbine was spooling quicker. i am about to try the new hybrid GT3082R to fix the problem.

Re: Anti Lag
 

Run a VGT/VNT style turbo. You can control turbine AR with anything that can control one of the high current cycling valves... DIY board, electronic boost controller, etc. The one Dave Peters at OTT Motorsports in Knoxville built they used an AVC-R to control wastegate size... think a transfer truck size turbo big enough to make a Holset HX35 look dinky spooling on a KA24DE at 2000 rpms.

Re: Anti Lag
 

It's been named "Bang Bang" and I'll try to find the vid of it active on a 9sec Lexus. I'd do it too, but there is a massive surge of heat that I really don't trust stressing my turbo/manifold. Not ideal for a DD in my mind.


Actually I always thought that at the point of clutch depression there was a massive amount of retarded timing to produce lots of exhaust gas to keep the turbo from slowing down? ???

Oh yea, you got a PM. I need to ship my turbo out to you and I have time to package it being spring break and all. :)

EDIT: Found it:

http://thumbs.vidiac.com/e4273e3f-87...e754fcb95a.jpgClick here to see Video

JP

Re: Anti Lag
 

Anti lag systems are pretty neat. I have looked at a ton of different ways of improving "lag". When I ---- up coming out of a corner and get the car down on RPM it seems like forever to get it up on the pipe again.

This is what I did in the computer program. In the far bottom left corner in the (high rpm and high vacum) I added lots of fuel and retarted the spark. This increases exhaust temps during off throttle activities, shifting, and braking(without clutch) On the dyno it shits out a pretty large flame, out on the track it is pretty bright out so it doesn't get notice.

Randy
PS Blasst you will be seening the turbo soon for a next session rebuild and maybe upgrade ;D

Re: Anti Lag
 

From what I’ve read there’s two different kinds of ALS, the first is where you’re just retarding the timing on the exhaust in order to let the gases keep the turbo spooling, the second involves injecting MORE fuel (and in the case of the st205 more air via an air injection system) and actively trying to ignite it pre-turbine to keep the turbo spooling….obviously the second is more harmful to the turbo…..as for the spark cut idea, is there anyway you could get more info on that?

Re: Anti Lag
 

so then what, have a switch to disable it during staging?

Re: Anti Lag
 

a ON and OFF switch? why not? I don't see a problem adding that.

Thinking about it, it's an even better anti lag than we may think...

Because after all, if spark is cut when the clutch is depressed, you no longer need to let off the throttle between shifts really... You stay floored, just like a power shift, but you can engage the gear easily because the spark is cut, you release the clutch, the throttle never closed, the BOV never blew off and you always remain on your initial spool up as long as you stay floored! makes sense?

Re: Anti Lag
 

eh i know id forget to turn the switch back and stall every time i came to a stop lol

Re: Anti Lag
 

hmm sounds interesting...using this application you wouldn't be blowing up the mixture in the exhaust manifold and with a decently sized turbo you might be able to make it work with no lag...is there any way you could get more info from one of the people you know that's running it?

Re: Anti Lag
 

I've poked at the only ST205 swap into an ST165 in North America. It's an honest to god WRC engine, too. Interesting ride.


Not really.

I've seen more than one turbine wheel pop off the shaft from extreme EGTs due to retarding too much timing. A lot of engines won't last long enough to trash the turbo, tho, the exhaust valves get cherry red and start preignition... GVR-4 366/2000 killed a big 16G and a 20G that way, the engine lasted through it because not only did it have sodium filled valves from an Evo8, but first gen 4G63 are ------- indestructible. I wouldn't try it for long, or often, in a Honduh - Honduh engines are pretty resilient when tuned correctly, but they are fragile when the tune is off.

Re: Anti Lag
 

Yea you're right, you'd definetly have to keep an eye on EGT...I don't think I would run it continuously or that often...probably just when tracking the car...btw I have a Toyota (2zz-ge, 7th gen Celica GT-S)

Re: Anti Lag
 

You know how you get rid of turbo lag bring it to full boost before you let off the clutch. OMG that was too easy. :4

Re: Anti Lag
 

[quote=Joseph Davis ]
I've poked at the only ST205 swap into an ST165 in North America. It's an honest to god WRC engine, too. Interesting ride.


there is a st165 with a st205 engine that runs at mission raceway same car? i belive its blue

Re: Anti Lag
 

Most well i wont say most, but alot of turbo hondas iv seen wount spool the turbo with the clutch pressed or in neutral, you need to have a load on it.......

and even if you could spool it that way, then when you launch you would have jack ---- for traction...so...i think this anti lag ideas are pritty tits

Re: Anti Lag
 

Actually, no, it's black. The owner told me it was the only 205 swap into a 165 in North America... she's a pretty big car geek, and usually correct. In this case mebbe not. :/

Re: Anti Lag
 

I asked her about this and she said that apparently, there are infact 3 ST205 swap to ST165 cars in North America now that actually run. :6

We might get a chance to try out CROME on a dsm if your up to it...
I might have a possible 1G drag car if you and Wes can keep the dsm jokes to an acceptable level...

Re: Anti Lag
 

Full Throttle Launch with a tightened E-brake pulled and sagged at the line, that's all the pre-boost you need for a FWD car that sucks a traction.


JP

Re: Anti Lag
 

Its getting motorcycle weather out... Getting Paul pried away from his Ducati long enough to make an adapter will be difficult.

Re: Anti Lag
 

i was thinking about picking up a st205 engine (i can get one cheap) and throwing it in a 85 corolla gts. but as far as the all trac ive seen it rips 12 second passes

Re: Anti Lag
 

Does the tranny in the 86 bolt up to the 3sgte??..That'd be pretty sick....I wish I could get a GT4 over here...are they legal for import into Canada yet?

Re: Anti Lag
 

.u have to use a 3vzfe v6 truck bell housing and a supra w55 tranny . move the turbo so u can bolt the starter threw the engine side and all the mounts and wiring. then a 3sgte will go into a ae86

Re: Anti Lag
 

I dunno, if you can get 4AGE forgings cheaper I'd go that route. Stout little iron blocks, inexpensive, robust. A 12 isn't terribly hard to crack in a 2000 lb car, it takes less than 200 whp and decent traction.

Re: Anti Lag
 

i dont want a drag 86, i want a 300 whp 86 . i own a car that revs to 9 g. i want torque

Re: Anti Lag
 

Agreed, from what I've heard the 3s-gte is fairly heavy...not to mention the parts for the 205's 3s are failry hard to come by...

Re: Anti Lag
 

meh heavy dont matter keeps the power down. and as far as a 205 engine being rare. internals are the same as all other 3sgtes. the 3sgte is one of the best 4clys out there and i want a rwd version

Re: Anti Lag
 

spraying nitrous into the turbo will cause the fins to bend and unbalance the turbo

Re: Anti Lag
 

yea I had conveiniently neglected to think about the thermal properties of N2O at that pressure, thanks though :P

Re: Anti Lag
 

Oh, I was referring to all the other bits on the engine , not just the internals...and you don't have to tell me the 3s is a good engine, it's discussed on my Celica forum constantly....it's a little heavy yea, but it's got a nuke -proof block (for a four cylinder) can make good power with just a turbo swap...it's even still used in the super gt Celicas ...as for having a RWD version, it shouldn't be that hard, people make "half-tracks' out of Celica all tracs all the time....try visiting alltrac.net

Re: Anti Lag
 

Turbos create torque, the displacement difference between 4A and 3S is meaningless in an AE86. Also, 3S-GTE has super tiny exhaust ports, stock for stock the 4AGE head will take you further before bottlenecking.

Re: Anti Lag
 

Got news for ya buddy, the 3S-GTE (even ST205) isnt that great of a motor. Yeah yeah alltrac.net mr2 3rd gen blah blah ct20 blah blah small port piece of rod bearing spinning, head gasket blowing junk. You are right about the st205 being the best 3s. It is by far. But it is STILL far inferior to the honda B-series and the 4G63. In my own opinion (and personal experience, having owned quite a few toyotas, mr2s among them) the 4A-GE is a far better engine to turbocharge and make power from. Parts are cheap, and it already sits in your corolla. It is the easyest n/a engine on the planet to turbocharge. You can even use the stock manifold.

100% correct.

If you only want 300 hp why go thru all the effort to stuff the 3s/w55 into a corolla??? YOu can make that on your 4age with nothing more than an afc and dsm 450cc injectors (yes they fall right in) Plus, you will have to consider that if you set the 3s right side up you will need to redo your oil pickup, as it will no longer be submerged.

If your dead set on an engine swap, grab a 2rz and tranny from a 2wd taco, and go to town, as they will handle 400hp all day long on the stock longblock.


Before you retort, Yes the 3s does infact suck a dick. But not as bad as an sr20 ::)

Re: Anti Lag
 

Uh, I kind of like the SR20. :-\