VTEC & Ghettodyne?
06-01-2003, 06:45 PM
#1
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VTEC & Ghettodyne?
I'm not big on the whole ghettodyne thing so don't blame me if this sounds dumb.
Why won't ghettodyne work with a VTEC equipped engine? I know your modding your stock crx and civic cpus that are pre-vtec for north america. But I can't understand why Zdyne has no problem hooking up their cpu for a B16 with VTEC and it is an OBD1 from the oldskool crx and civic.
I think I probably completely missed something when this stuff first evolved but I would appreciate it if some of the ghettodyne geeks could help me out here.
Why won't ghettodyne work with a VTEC equipped engine? I know your modding your stock crx and civic cpus that are pre-vtec for north america. But I can't understand why Zdyne has no problem hooking up their cpu for a B16 with VTEC and it is an OBD1 from the oldskool crx and civic.
I think I probably completely missed something when this stuff first evolved but I would appreciate it if some of the ghettodyne geeks could help me out here.
06-01-2003, 09:40 PM
#2
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 82
Re:VTEC & Ghettodyne?
Well for one thing. Zdyne costs $1000 bucks a pop. The ---- involved to make a stock OBD-0 ECU into a Zdyne prolly costs less than $50. Fairly decent profit margin wouldn't you say? Now Zdyne has been around for a while and the guys behind it aren't going to give out their secrets, cause crafty ******* like the guys on the pgmfi forum would be working that to there advantage in a heart beat. Zdyne uses a propretiary MCU(cpu chip) that has internal RAM and ROM(*I think*), also Zdyne has code written specifically for that MCU. Not that this really explain why to you. Just take it this way, if we(pgmfi guys) were getting paid mega-bucks to learn how to do what Zdyne has already done there would prolly be no problem with Ghettodyne and VTEC. However since it's mostly a work of love by a few dedicated guy that ask for nothing in return...
Now to correct some things. The B16's that cam from 88-91 CRX/Civic's are not OBD-1. They are mostly OBD-0. The b16 ecu's from that era are a kinda hybrid. They use OBD-0 electronics, with a OBD-1 MCU(brian). All the OBD-1 programs have 2 seperate maps for fuel and timing. One for the low cam, and one for VTEC. Since OBD-0 non-VTEC ecu's only uses one map this creates a bit of a problem.
However there is no reason you can't use Ghettodyne for a VTEC engine. This is accomplished almost exactly the same way Zdyne does it. As far as the fuel/ign maps go Zdyne blends the low cam and VTEC maps together. So what you get is a single map that below VTEC rpm has the fueling/timing for the low cam, and above VTEC rpm is of course VTEC fueling/timing. The only difference b/t Ghettodyne and Zdyne when running a VTEC engine is the Zdyne has the ability to add VTEC actuation directly on the ECU, with Ghettodyne an external RPM switch can be used.
I've made a handful of VTEC programs to be used with Ghettodyne. To date i've created a Mini-me, a B16 and an ITR prog.
Now to correct some things. The B16's that cam from 88-91 CRX/Civic's are not OBD-1. They are mostly OBD-0. The b16 ecu's from that era are a kinda hybrid. They use OBD-0 electronics, with a OBD-1 MCU(brian). All the OBD-1 programs have 2 seperate maps for fuel and timing. One for the low cam, and one for VTEC. Since OBD-0 non-VTEC ecu's only uses one map this creates a bit of a problem.
However there is no reason you can't use Ghettodyne for a VTEC engine. This is accomplished almost exactly the same way Zdyne does it. As far as the fuel/ign maps go Zdyne blends the low cam and VTEC maps together. So what you get is a single map that below VTEC rpm has the fueling/timing for the low cam, and above VTEC rpm is of course VTEC fueling/timing. The only difference b/t Ghettodyne and Zdyne when running a VTEC engine is the Zdyne has the ability to add VTEC actuation directly on the ECU, with Ghettodyne an external RPM switch can be used.
I've made a handful of VTEC programs to be used with Ghettodyne. To date i've created a Mini-me, a B16 and an ITR prog.
06-01-2003, 11:08 PM
#3
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 57
Re:VTEC & Ghettodyne?
Ok, this is probably waaaaaaay more info than you wanted but you asked for it 
First off, I named GhettoDyne for a reason. It is a ghetto version of Zdyne! In the beginning it was way Ghetto, but these days it is actually looking/functioning like a respectable program
Now onto the differences...(note some of these are speculation since no one has reverse engineered a Zdyne, nor will we ever because that is just plain RUDE. First, the hardware for Zdyne is the same as any 88-91 PM6/PM7. There are some differences between those years, but for all intents and purposes the hardware is the same. Zdyne adds an RS232 port for serial connection. This is NOT hard to do. The ECU is practically already setup for that, you just add the daughter board, it certainly isn't rocket science. Next, Zdyne replaces the Microcontroller with a Dallas Microcontroller. GhettoDyne doesn't require you do this unless you have an 88-89 PM6 or a PM7 in which there is no external ROM chip to replace. If these terms are confusing you then goto www.GhettoDyne.com and read all about it in the tools-->ECU Modification sections. Zdyne also adds a transistor or two depending on if you want VTEC capability or NOS functionality. You see, you need a transistor to trigger the VTEC solonoid. You need transistors for all the voltage demanding things that the ECU is controlling, such as Fuel injectors, Shift light for HF models, and VTEC solonoids for VTEC cars. We believe that Zdyne harnessed the HF shiftlight routine to trigger VTEC and added the transistor that the HF ECU comes with from the factory to trigger the VTEC solonoid. For B series engines etc, Zdyne simply used the PM6 code but changed the fuel/ignition maps to the B16 maps and of course added the transistor for VTEC. There are NOT 4 sets of maps for the B series Zdyne like the stock B series ECU comes with from near as I can tell. It is basically just tuning a D series map base and adding in the transistor for VTEC activation. It is one of the things we are working on, but hey, it's free, meaning it is done in spare time, so who knows when it will come. Also, it WILL require adding the transistor to the ECU just like it requires chipping the ECU. Zdyne does all of this for you, but it costs you. Since GhettoDyne is free, we obviously don't do any of the chipping or hardware additions for you!
Lastly, I just gotta add that GhettoDyne supports datalogging in conjunction with ECUControl (www.ECUControl.com) thanks to Nick from PGMFI! Zdyne does not support logging, and probably never will. Hope this helps.
Mike
First off, I named GhettoDyne for a reason. It is a ghetto version of Zdyne! In the beginning it was way Ghetto, but these days it is actually looking/functioning like a respectable program
Now onto the differences...(note some of these are speculation since no one has reverse engineered a Zdyne, nor will we ever because that is just plain RUDE. First, the hardware for Zdyne is the same as any 88-91 PM6/PM7. There are some differences between those years, but for all intents and purposes the hardware is the same. Zdyne adds an RS232 port for serial connection. This is NOT hard to do. The ECU is practically already setup for that, you just add the daughter board, it certainly isn't rocket science. Next, Zdyne replaces the Microcontroller with a Dallas Microcontroller. GhettoDyne doesn't require you do this unless you have an 88-89 PM6 or a PM7 in which there is no external ROM chip to replace. If these terms are confusing you then goto www.GhettoDyne.com and read all about it in the tools-->ECU Modification sections. Zdyne also adds a transistor or two depending on if you want VTEC capability or NOS functionality. You see, you need a transistor to trigger the VTEC solonoid. You need transistors for all the voltage demanding things that the ECU is controlling, such as Fuel injectors, Shift light for HF models, and VTEC solonoids for VTEC cars. We believe that Zdyne harnessed the HF shiftlight routine to trigger VTEC and added the transistor that the HF ECU comes with from the factory to trigger the VTEC solonoid. For B series engines etc, Zdyne simply used the PM6 code but changed the fuel/ignition maps to the B16 maps and of course added the transistor for VTEC. There are NOT 4 sets of maps for the B series Zdyne like the stock B series ECU comes with from near as I can tell. It is basically just tuning a D series map base and adding in the transistor for VTEC activation. It is one of the things we are working on, but hey, it's free, meaning it is done in spare time, so who knows when it will come. Also, it WILL require adding the transistor to the ECU just like it requires chipping the ECU. Zdyne does all of this for you, but it costs you. Since GhettoDyne is free, we obviously don't do any of the chipping or hardware additions for you!
Lastly, I just gotta add that GhettoDyne supports datalogging in conjunction with ECUControl (www.ECUControl.com) thanks to Nick from PGMFI! Zdyne does not support logging, and probably never will. Hope this helps.
Mike
06-02-2003, 03:20 PM
#4
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 590
Re:VTEC & Ghettodyne?
I went to the ECUControl site and they said you could mod a ODB0 or ODB1 board, but then they list a p28/p30 board. I thought that the P30 was an odb2 board.
What board do I have? (95 Del Sol Vtec)
I understand what your doing to some degree, but what are the honda engineers writing the code with and how did you 'crack' it? Why are you using visual basic instead of C?
I'm interested but I need some more nfo
What board do I have? (95 Del Sol Vtec)
I understand what your doing to some degree, but what are the honda engineers writing the code with and how did you 'crack' it? Why are you using visual basic instead of C?
I'm interested but I need some more nfo
06-02-2003, 03:34 PM
#5
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Re:VTEC & Ghettodyne?
06-03-2003, 01:05 PM
#6
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Re:VTEC & Ghettodyne?
Originally Posted by BigJ
What board do I have? (95 Del Sol Vtec)
I understand what your doing to some degree, but what are the honda engineers writing the code with and how did you 'crack' it? Why are you using visual basic instead of C?
I understand what your doing to some degree, but what are the honda engineers writing the code with and how did you 'crack' it? Why are you using visual basic instead of C?
2) Honda programmers have written the ECU in "machine language" called assembly. This is the lowest form of coding next to binary. The specific type of ASM (assembly) is called 8051. This is for the microcontroller used in the ECU. To learn more about this language, go to www.8052.com.
How it was "cracked" was the EEPROM was pulled from the ECU, dumped to file format and opened in a disassembler. This is a program that puts the code into human readable format. From there changes can be made, rewritten, and the EEPROM reburned with the updated code.
Why use Visual Basic instead of C? Visual Basic is a Windows BAsed language. The API is easy to learn, and quick to write. Work smarter not harder..
06-03-2003, 01:51 PM
#7
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 590
Re:VTEC & Ghettodyne?
No, it's a DOHC Vtec del sol, it is a P30, and when most ppl use asm (assembler) for a processor they use C and then compile it. But I don't know of any decent decompilers, what do you use?
Did any of you guys go to that site I left a link for, it has premade turbo chips.
I'm just really interested int this stuff, I'm taking computer engineering in school so I think I may be able to contribute, plus I want to use this a TR project
Did any of you guys go to that site I left a link for, it has premade turbo chips.
I'm just really interested int this stuff, I'm taking computer engineering in school so I think I may be able to contribute, plus I want to use this a TR project
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