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Ign map that fucked up ?..please take a look

Old 10-12-2006, 09:53 AM
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Default Ign map that fucked up ?..please take a look

hi,

I used a bin from about the same engine and turbo for my own turbo project. (D16z5 engine, small turbo).
The ign map should be concervative and was tuned on a dyno.

I ran it to like 4-5 psi and i got pretty some detonation above 5000 rpm. I added a picture with the map (bottom map in pic) and made a new map using the stock PM7 map with -,7 degrees per pound of boost. (top map in picture)

As i compared the ign maps i see huge differences...now my question...is mine just VERY VERY concervative, or is the bottom map indeed pretty fucked up ?

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Old 10-12-2006, 02:26 PM
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Default Re: Ign map that fucked up ?..please take a look

Both are pretty fucked up. You planning on ever retarding any real amount of ignition timing?
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Old 10-12-2006, 04:24 PM
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Default Re: Ign map that fucked up ?..please take a look

oke well there's my problem. I just opened the stock PM7 ign map and retarded it (linear) -,7 which should pretty safe as i read here.

What am i doing wrong ? its my first.....
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Old 10-12-2006, 04:57 PM
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Default Re: Ign map that fucked up ?..please take a look

first off, I would start with a 1 degree per pound retard if you have no clue what you are doing or its your first map. Then get it on the dyno. It is always easier to add timing.
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Old 10-13-2006, 12:49 AM
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Default Re: Ign map that fucked up ?..please take a look

D16Z5 is a flavor of DOHC ZC?

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Old 10-13-2006, 05:09 AM
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Default Re: Ign map that fucked up ?..please take a look

yes, well actually the DOHC zc is only to be found in the 86-87 EDM and JDM crx's (if i am correct) it has a vacuum advance.

Many people tend to name every D16 dohc "zc"...but yes, it is kinda the same as a D16A1 i guess. The D16Z5 1990-1991 crx (with cat converter...originally, its gone now), produces 124 bhp stock and the 1988-1989 crx has the D16A9 (which is almost the same, just a smaller clutch.200mm in stead of 210mm and no cat converter). It produces 131bhp stock.

So i think you can name the D16Z5 a "zc".
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Old 10-13-2006, 10:41 AM
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Default Re: Ign map that fucked up ?..please take a look

Ah. Those got a lot more part throttle timing than the SOHCs did, expansive combustion chamber, etc. At the end of the day I'd say it's still a small bore engine and you're feeding it too much timing - I don't know of any 75mm engines that like 0.7 deg/psi retard. For now set your maps so that you're running 14 degrees at 10 psi, and be prepared to have to fiddle timing from there because you are not D16A/Z or D16Y which are more fluent and better known. Go to TD16 or HT and lurk SOHC_MShue's posts on det-cans. That's all you need to know on ignition timing.

Does the engine go through a bit of oil? The combustion chamber might be carboned up + stuff, I was dealing with an engine last night that would ping at very conservative timing.
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Old 10-13-2006, 07:34 PM
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Default Re: Ign map that fucked up ?..please take a look

Does the bore of the engine really effect the ping rate really much ? didn't know that.
I guess im going to add a J&S safeguard to keep the inaudible detonation under control. its going to be a daily driver so i want a little bit realiability.

I'm going to drive it with the turbo-piping loose. See if its still rattling then..if so, its probably another new noise. Still im going to use more concervative timing. What would be nice ? 1 or so (well untill i get -14 @ 10psi i guess (I was told that -.75 to -.50 would be rather safe)

As you say, prepared to have to fiddle timing from there, do you mean that it its still very posible that it will/can detonate, or that it might be too concervative at some points ?

Thanks for your reply...its really helping me.

PS: no the car uses almost NO oil at all. Still it has about 170.000km on it.
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Old 10-13-2006, 10:06 PM
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Default Re: Ign map that fucked up ?..please take a look

Small bore is efficiency, big bore is power. A turbo can go far, but it means you ahve to run a lot more pressure to push a smaller faced piston down just as hard as a piston with a larger face.

J&S Safeguard is an expensive semi-effective bandaid for actually tuning the car in the first place. I have considered getting one to be able to log detonation on a cyl by cyl basis, and compare to dyno + det-can info, but... plenty of people go a long way without one.

Turbo charge piping loose is just going to overspool your turbo and kill it. If you have an internal wastegate wire it open... external wastegate you can take the spring out or jimmy the internals so it hangs open. This is going to accomplish just as much as modulating your throttle so you get 0 psi on your boost gauge... and, if you are detonating that badly you can just read your plugs anyway.

When I said fiddle timing, I meant you would *probably* be safe, but you would want to get around to tuning your ignition via dyno or det-cans or paying someone at some point.
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Old 10-14-2006, 03:45 AM
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Default Re: Ign map that fucked up ?..please take a look

well about the safeguard..if it works to get away the inaudible detonation...ill probably go for it. A engine only costs around 300,- but the work and inconveiniece is worth allot i think.

When i loosen my chargepipes..illl open the wastegate offcourse...would work i gues.

about the dyno-tune. that the problem. In the US, its allot more common, also it seems that almost every town has its own dragstrip (At least where my brother was ).
Its hard to find a good tuner in the Netherlands, and i you find one, they don't happen to "know" honda's.
I might go to belgium, R-speed has a good reputation of tuning 350Z's, S2000's and NSX's. Might be pretty expensive...we'll see
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