Can someone double check my basemap. Also I think I'm getting lean conditions.
06-20-2007, 11:09 AM
#1
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Can someone double check my basemap. Also I think I'm getting lean conditions.
Well first off I cant exactly check my AFR because the Innovative LC1 is garbage. So I made this map for it. Injectors are 460's from an RX7. Map sensor is a motorola 2.5bar and spark plugs are NGK ZFR5 Turbo is a tipical T04E .50a/r .57 trim
Ignition retard is 1.10 degrees per psi of boost and set at 180% turbo efficiency. meaning it should be running super rich (O2 is disabled). But its not.
I am getting a gray tinge on all my plugs. it will be carbon all around the bottom but the arm hanging over the electrode will be gray in color.
I'm worried its leaning out. According to http://www.dansmc.com/spark_plugs/Sp...s_catalog.html they seem ok. I just want another opinion so I dont blow up the built motor. I'm set at 7psi right now i would love to run 10 on these injectors but am afraid to change the map around.
This is the ignition timing. (base timing is set at 16 degrees)
Fuel
Ignition retard is 1.10 degrees per psi of boost and set at 180% turbo efficiency. meaning it should be running super rich (O2 is disabled). But its not.
I am getting a gray tinge on all my plugs. it will be carbon all around the bottom but the arm hanging over the electrode will be gray in color.
I'm worried its leaning out. According to http://www.dansmc.com/spark_plugs/Sp...s_catalog.html they seem ok. I just want another opinion so I dont blow up the built motor. I'm set at 7psi right now i would love to run 10 on these injectors but am afraid to change the map around.
This is the ignition timing. (base timing is set at 16 degrees)
Fuel
06-20-2007, 02:17 PM
#2
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Re: Can someone double check my basemap. Also I think I'm getting lean conditions.
Well I would say your timing is probably to retarded . Thats could be why your plugs have the gray tint they could be getting to much heat from the timing being off. Honestly the way I street tuning timing is by watching Engine coolant temps.
I just drive the car around out of boost and watch ect's as I tune part throttle and cruise for fuel (out of boost.) that way I get an idea of what the average temps for the motor are usaully around 195-200 If I notice ect's rising in boost I retard timing a few degree's
and see what that does. If that makes it worse or no change I try some advance...just play with it but be carefull. by doing this I find the kind of sweet spot were ect's are going to be the lowest in boost and go from there. Pull over and check your plugs.
make sure they don't have black specs all over the porcelain or little shiney flakes. Thats a sure sign of detonation.
And as to fuel.....The duty cycle in crome doesn't really work so thats not something to pay much attention to. The black carbon ring around base is good. that shows youve got fuel close. But the gray on the ground strap and electrode probably meens your runing to hot a plug.
What your looking for is a good tan redish tint on the plugs If your plugs clean then thats really a sign it's to high a heat range for your engine and it's cleaning everything off that you would like to see to get an accurate reading.
Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I haven't been tuning for very long. JD and Xenocron knowmore then I do at this point.
I just drive the car around out of boost and watch ect's as I tune part throttle and cruise for fuel (out of boost.) that way I get an idea of what the average temps for the motor are usaully around 195-200 If I notice ect's rising in boost I retard timing a few degree's
and see what that does. If that makes it worse or no change I try some advance...just play with it but be carefull. by doing this I find the kind of sweet spot were ect's are going to be the lowest in boost and go from there. Pull over and check your plugs.
make sure they don't have black specs all over the porcelain or little shiney flakes. Thats a sure sign of detonation.
And as to fuel.....The duty cycle in crome doesn't really work so thats not something to pay much attention to. The black carbon ring around base is good. that shows youve got fuel close. But the gray on the ground strap and electrode probably meens your runing to hot a plug.
What your looking for is a good tan redish tint on the plugs If your plugs clean then thats really a sign it's to high a heat range for your engine and it's cleaning everything off that you would like to see to get an accurate reading.
Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I haven't been tuning for very long. JD and Xenocron knowmore then I do at this point.
06-21-2007, 12:23 AM
#4
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Re: Can someone double check my basemap. Also I think I'm getting lean condition
Originally Posted by Xgenturbo
Come on guys. i need some insight here.
Your fuel probably isn't all that rich if rich at all. I find I end up adding a lot of fuel in the boost portion with 120% turbo efficiancy. check your plugs and watch for signs of detonation. Get one step colder plugs and see what they look like. You don't want to hot a plug causing preignition. if that happens the motors done.
But get a working wideband.
06-21-2007, 07:50 AM
#5
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Re: Can someone double check my basemap. Also I think I'm getting lean condition
Originally Posted by Dmc1
Alright fine. 1.50 degrees of retard is probably to much. .75 usaully works pretty well I usaully only have to retard or advance a degree or so on a Bseries to get it where it likes it. D's are another story.
Your fuel probably isn't all that rich if rich at all. I find I end up adding a lot of fuel in the boost portion with 120% turbo efficiancy. check your plugs and watch for signs of detonation. Get one step colder plugs and see what they look like. You don't want to hot a plug causing preignition. if that happens the motors done.
But get a working wideband.
Your fuel probably isn't all that rich if rich at all. I find I end up adding a lot of fuel in the boost portion with 120% turbo efficiancy. check your plugs and watch for signs of detonation. Get one step colder plugs and see what they look like. You don't want to hot a plug causing preignition. if that happens the motors done.
But get a working wideband.
06-21-2007, 11:16 AM
#6
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Re: Can someone double check my basemap. Also I think I'm getting lean condition
Glad to see you really did read all those plug articles I posted up Dmc1 
Ok, here's the skinny...greyish color on the strap has no impact at all on your afr. The porcelain that's visible should stay a clean white color when you're in the proper temp range for the plug regardless if you run an 11:1 afr or 14.7:1 afr. The proper area to read is actually inside the plug at the bottom of the well where it's hard to see. If you have a grey or light tan ring down there, then yeah...you're running too lean in boost. The top end's of the porcelain are suppose to "heat clean" themselves off so they kinda look new after extended period of run time (i.e. engine up to running temp). The upper area of the plug only deals with your part throttle loading and should clean off. The color "band" (or annealing mark) on the ground strap will tell you if your in the right heat range. Only change the heat range of the plug after you get tuned closer to a final tune or you find you're still detonating (like said, indicated by small black pepper spots on the porcelain...this is oil coming past the rings under light detonation). Hope this helps out some.
Ok, here's the skinny...greyish color on the strap has no impact at all on your afr. The porcelain that's visible should stay a clean white color when you're in the proper temp range for the plug regardless if you run an 11:1 afr or 14.7:1 afr. The proper area to read is actually inside the plug at the bottom of the well where it's hard to see. If you have a grey or light tan ring down there, then yeah...you're running too lean in boost. The top end's of the porcelain are suppose to "heat clean" themselves off so they kinda look new after extended period of run time (i.e. engine up to running temp). The upper area of the plug only deals with your part throttle loading and should clean off. The color "band" (or annealing mark) on the ground strap will tell you if your in the right heat range. Only change the heat range of the plug after you get tuned closer to a final tune or you find you're still detonating (like said, indicated by small black pepper spots on the porcelain...this is oil coming past the rings under light detonation). Hope this helps out some.
