FS: T4 Compressor Wheel, Housing, and Backplate
01-03-2007, 11:37 PM
#11
1.5 BAR
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 877
Re: FS: T4 Compressor Wheel, Housing, and Backplate
Yeah this looks like a t04b 54 trim, the one they also call the T5/6.
wheel inducer should be 51.61mm or a bit less because of the wear. There'S no map for this compressor although it's obviously somehwere in between t04b S trim and V trim. Therefore it's a good 250-350hp compressor that can be pushed to 400 hp.
and in real life it does perform as such because I personaly have used it on many projects.
adding such compressor to a t3 involves a complete rebuild with balancing, shaft straightening and all that good profesional and specialized care, otherwise it won't last.
wheel inducer should be 51.61mm or a bit less because of the wear. There'S no map for this compressor although it's obviously somehwere in between t04b S trim and V trim. Therefore it's a good 250-350hp compressor that can be pushed to 400 hp.
and in real life it does perform as such because I personaly have used it on many projects.
adding such compressor to a t3 involves a complete rebuild with balancing, shaft straightening and all that good profesional and specialized care, otherwise it won't last.
01-04-2007, 08:42 AM
#12
1.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 245
Re: FS: T4 Compressor Wheel, Housing, and Backplate
Originally Posted by BLAAST
Yeah this looks like a t04b 54 trim, the one they also call the T5/6.
wheel inducer should be 51.61mm or a bit less because of the wear. There'S no map for this compressor although it's obviously somehwere in between t04b S trim and V trim. Therefore it's a good 250-350hp compressor that can be pushed to 400 hp.
and in real life it does perform as such because I personaly have used it on many projects.
adding such compressor to a t3 involves a complete rebuild with balancing, shaft straightening and all that good profesional and specialized care, otherwise it won't last.
wheel inducer should be 51.61mm or a bit less because of the wear. There'S no map for this compressor although it's obviously somehwere in between t04b S trim and V trim. Therefore it's a good 250-350hp compressor that can be pushed to 400 hp.
and in real life it does perform as such because I personaly have used it on many projects.
adding such compressor to a t3 involves a complete rebuild with balancing, shaft straightening and all that good profesional and specialized care, otherwise it won't last.
With that said, you wanna buy it? :P
PS. I also have the center section and the 1.00 divided tang t4 turbine housing, and the turbine shaft..
basically the whole turbo
01-04-2007, 09:31 AM
#13
1.5 BAR
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 877
Re: FS: T4 Compressor Wheel, Housing, and Backplate
garn , can't blame you for taking a guess at it since that's what this forum is about but you are as wrong in your basic turbo understanding as you are wrong about the goal and motivation of my presence on this forum.
Let's compare a turbo with something we all know....
You can see a turbo assembly as a rim and tire combo:
If you put a new tire on your rim and you let the old balancing weights on the rim, will that wheel be balanced? of course not. of course The weights need to be removed and the wheel balanced with this new tire. new weights will be needed in completely different spots and in different amounts in order to balance that new combination of tire and rim. Much like a turbo IMO.
Yes it's true that compressor wheel and turbine are separately balanced as a first step, but they are also (and mostly) balanced together as a whole rotating assembly afterwards. So Each wheel is no longer individually balanced when it has been balanced in an asembly!
We ALWAYS do grind-off material from both wheels AFTER they are assembled together.
Obviously, if you install ANOTHER wheel that still has the grinding marks made for balancing ANOTHER assembly, There's no clock position for which this compressor wheel will make this new assembly under balance. That's why It's ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE that a turbo will be well balanced if randomly assembled. However it is possible that it works acceptably for a little while if you are lucky but it still boils down to that fact that it won'T last long because unbalanced.
Let's compare a turbo with something we all know....
You can see a turbo assembly as a rim and tire combo:
If you put a new tire on your rim and you let the old balancing weights on the rim, will that wheel be balanced? of course not. of course The weights need to be removed and the wheel balanced with this new tire. new weights will be needed in completely different spots and in different amounts in order to balance that new combination of tire and rim. Much like a turbo IMO.
Yes it's true that compressor wheel and turbine are separately balanced as a first step, but they are also (and mostly) balanced together as a whole rotating assembly afterwards. So Each wheel is no longer individually balanced when it has been balanced in an asembly!
We ALWAYS do grind-off material from both wheels AFTER they are assembled together.
Obviously, if you install ANOTHER wheel that still has the grinding marks made for balancing ANOTHER assembly, There's no clock position for which this compressor wheel will make this new assembly under balance. That's why It's ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE that a turbo will be well balanced if randomly assembled. However it is possible that it works acceptably for a little while if you are lucky but it still boils down to that fact that it won'T last long because unbalanced.
01-04-2007, 10:51 AM
#14
1.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 245
Re: FS: T4 Compressor Wheel, Housing, and Backplate
Sorry, I am not guessing, but it is fact.
First, your analogy of wheel and tire combo is flawed because tires are not balanced in the first place, so of course you have to balance them together!
In reference to garrett turbo's
"One way was to balance the turbine wheel and shaft and the compressor wheel as a single unit. The other way was to balance the turbine wheel and shaft the compressor wheel individually. You can tell how the balancing was done by the shape/appearance of the COMPRESSOR nut. If the nut appears to be ground down then the turbine wheel and shaft and the compressor wheel (and nut) were balanced together. If the nut is not ground down then the wheels were done individually. If the wheels were done individually then it is not absolutely necessary to mark them and get them in the same location as they were prior to removal. In the case of the "ground down nut" turbo, it is a good idea to keep the wheels lined up in their original positions. If you mess them up all is not lost! John can re-balance the wheels for under $20!!! Other turbo repair shops should be able to do this as well."
Link: http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/turborebuild.html
To follow this up, I have never seen an OEM garrett turbo that had the compressor nut shaved, which is apparently for whole assembly balancing. In the case of the specific compressor wheel I am sellling, or have sold, the compressor nut is not shaved, so the wheel and shaft were balanced seperately.
First, your analogy of wheel and tire combo is flawed because tires are not balanced in the first place, so of course you have to balance them together!
In reference to garrett turbo's
"One way was to balance the turbine wheel and shaft and the compressor wheel as a single unit. The other way was to balance the turbine wheel and shaft the compressor wheel individually. You can tell how the balancing was done by the shape/appearance of the COMPRESSOR nut. If the nut appears to be ground down then the turbine wheel and shaft and the compressor wheel (and nut) were balanced together. If the nut is not ground down then the wheels were done individually. If the wheels were done individually then it is not absolutely necessary to mark them and get them in the same location as they were prior to removal. In the case of the "ground down nut" turbo, it is a good idea to keep the wheels lined up in their original positions. If you mess them up all is not lost! John can re-balance the wheels for under $20!!! Other turbo repair shops should be able to do this as well."
Link: http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/turborebuild.html
To follow this up, I have never seen an OEM garrett turbo that had the compressor nut shaved, which is apparently for whole assembly balancing. In the case of the specific compressor wheel I am sellling, or have sold, the compressor nut is not shaved, so the wheel and shaft were balanced seperately.
Originally Posted by BLAAST
garn , can't blame you for taking a guess at it since that's what this forum is about but you are as wrong in your basic turbo understanding as you are wrong about the goal and motivation of my presence on this forum.
Let's compare a turbo with something we all know....
You can see a turbo assembly as a rim and tire combo:
If you put a new tire on your rim and you let the old balancing weights on the rim, will that wheel be balanced? of course not. of course The weights need to be removed and the wheel balanced with this new tire. new weights will be needed in completely different spots and in different amounts in order to balance that new combination of tire and rim. Much like a turbo IMO.
Yes it's true that compressor wheel and turbine are separately balanced as a first step, but they are also (and mostly) balanced together as a whole rotating assembly afterwards. So Each wheel is no longer individually balanced when it has been balanced in an asembly!
We ALWAYS do grind-off material from both wheels AFTER they are assembled together.
Obviously, if you install ANOTHER wheel that still has the grinding marks made for balancing ANOTHER assembly, There's no clock position for which this compressor wheel will make this new assembly under balance. That's why It's ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE that a turbo will be well balanced if randomly assembled. However it is possible that it works acceptably for a little while if you are lucky but it still boils down to that fact that it won'T last long because unbalanced.
Let's compare a turbo with something we all know....
You can see a turbo assembly as a rim and tire combo:
If you put a new tire on your rim and you let the old balancing weights on the rim, will that wheel be balanced? of course not. of course The weights need to be removed and the wheel balanced with this new tire. new weights will be needed in completely different spots and in different amounts in order to balance that new combination of tire and rim. Much like a turbo IMO.
Yes it's true that compressor wheel and turbine are separately balanced as a first step, but they are also (and mostly) balanced together as a whole rotating assembly afterwards. So Each wheel is no longer individually balanced when it has been balanced in an asembly!
We ALWAYS do grind-off material from both wheels AFTER they are assembled together.
Obviously, if you install ANOTHER wheel that still has the grinding marks made for balancing ANOTHER assembly, There's no clock position for which this compressor wheel will make this new assembly under balance. That's why It's ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE that a turbo will be well balanced if randomly assembled. However it is possible that it works acceptably for a little while if you are lucky but it still boils down to that fact that it won'T last long because unbalanced.
01-04-2007, 12:31 PM
#15
3.0 BAR
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,161
Re: FS: T4 Compressor Wheel, Housing, and Backplate
But in regards to placing it on a totally different turbo I think that balancing is still required. I agree with what you say (and evidently what Garrett says); however, this is going onto a TOTALLY different setup so the balancing would have to be recalibrated, correct? Or are you saying that sense it has already been balanced no matter what it gets bolted onto it is already been balanced? In other words, they are seperatly balanced entities (sp?) and if properly balanced alone then once applied to a new turbo is still prefectly balanced? (I think I just wrote a run-on fragment sentence :1)
I will get a rebuild from Blaast regardless because I'm putting alot of time/effort into this set-up to keep it as reliable as possible as it is my DD which I NEED for school, but none-the-less, this is a good topic.
JP
I will get a rebuild from Blaast regardless because I'm putting alot of time/effort into this set-up to keep it as reliable as possible as it is my DD which I NEED for school, but none-the-less, this is a good topic.
JP
01-04-2007, 02:08 PM
#16
1.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 245
Re: FS: T4 Compressor Wheel, Housing, and Backplate
Yes both your turbine wheel/shaft and the compressor wheel are balanced individually, seperately. Yes thats what I'm saying.. It won't be PERFECTLY balanced, no OEM turbo is (or any turbo for that matter), but it should be well within spec.
However, if you aren't doing this with a major budget, and you want it to be the best possible, having it balanced certainly isnt a BAD idea.
I had one of my turbo's (that I just sold) rebuilt by BLAAST, I was satisfied, but be sure and request a stagger gap turbine ring. It's more than worth the extra $15 or whatever it is, trust me! I do like the ceramic coating he applies as well.
However, if you aren't doing this with a major budget, and you want it to be the best possible, having it balanced certainly isnt a BAD idea.
I had one of my turbo's (that I just sold) rebuilt by BLAAST, I was satisfied, but be sure and request a stagger gap turbine ring. It's more than worth the extra $15 or whatever it is, trust me! I do like the ceramic coating he applies as well.
Originally Posted by samson
But in regards to placing it on a totally different turbo I think that balancing is still required. I agree with what you say (and evidently what Garrett says); however, this is going onto a TOTALLY different setup so the balancing would have to be recalibrated, correct? Or are you saying that sense it has already been balanced no matter what it gets bolted onto it is already been balanced? In other words, they are seperatly balanced entities (sp?) and if properly balanced alone then once applied to a new turbo is still prefectly balanced? (I think I just wrote a run-on fragment sentence :1)
I will get a rebuild from Blaast regardless because I'm putting alot of time/effort into this set-up to keep it as reliable as possible as it is my DD which I NEED for school, but none-the-less, this is a good topic.
JP
I will get a rebuild from Blaast regardless because I'm putting alot of time/effort into this set-up to keep it as reliable as possible as it is my DD which I NEED for school, but none-the-less, this is a good topic.
JP
01-04-2007, 07:56 PM
#17
1.5 BAR
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 877
Re: FS: T4 Compressor Wheel, Housing, and Backplate
No I don't agree. not true. 
absence of grinding marks on the nut doesn't mean that no corrections have been made to balance the assembly.
as per the most popular balancing procedure, assemblies are always balanced with grinding corrections performed BEHIND the wheels (not necessarily on the nut) on all t3/t4 complete assemblies. These corrections undo the individual balancing that was previously done on each wheels.
So basically, if you take a wheel from a used turbo, no it's not balanced: It has balancing marks at the back that were made AFTER it's individual balancing to balance it's assembly with ONE single shaft and only at an exact angle. If you mount it on a different shaft, even a brand new one that was freshly balanced individually, assy will be out of balance because of the remaining corrections on the comp wheel.
absence of grinding marks on the nut doesn't mean that no corrections have been made to balance the assembly.
as per the most popular balancing procedure, assemblies are always balanced with grinding corrections performed BEHIND the wheels (not necessarily on the nut) on all t3/t4 complete assemblies. These corrections undo the individual balancing that was previously done on each wheels.
So basically, if you take a wheel from a used turbo, no it's not balanced: It has balancing marks at the back that were made AFTER it's individual balancing to balance it's assembly with ONE single shaft and only at an exact angle. If you mount it on a different shaft, even a brand new one that was freshly balanced individually, assy will be out of balance because of the remaining corrections on the comp wheel.
01-04-2007, 08:49 PM
#18
1.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 245
Re: FS: T4 Compressor Wheel, Housing, and Backplate
Well yes I completely agree with ya here, but I was just talking about OEM turbo's. The compressor wheel i sold was stock, not rebalanced etc..
Originally Posted by BLAAST
No I don't agree. not true.
absence of grinding marks on the nut doesn't mean that no corrections have been made to balance the assembly.
as per the most popular balancing procedure, assemblies are always balanced with grinding corrections performed BEHIND the wheels (not necessarily on the nut) on all t3/t4 complete assemblies. These corrections undo the individual balancing that was previously done on each wheels.
So basically, if you take a wheel from a used turbo, no it's not balanced: It has balancing marks at the back that were made AFTER it's individual balancing to balance it's assembly with ONE single shaft and only at an exact angle. If you mount it on a different shaft, even a brand new one that was freshly balanced individually, assy will be out of balance because of the remaining corrections on the comp wheel.
absence of grinding marks on the nut doesn't mean that no corrections have been made to balance the assembly.
as per the most popular balancing procedure, assemblies are always balanced with grinding corrections performed BEHIND the wheels (not necessarily on the nut) on all t3/t4 complete assemblies. These corrections undo the individual balancing that was previously done on each wheels.
So basically, if you take a wheel from a used turbo, no it's not balanced: It has balancing marks at the back that were made AFTER it's individual balancing to balance it's assembly with ONE single shaft and only at an exact angle. If you mount it on a different shaft, even a brand new one that was freshly balanced individually, assy will be out of balance because of the remaining corrections on the comp wheel.
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