+Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

Alright, heres the story. so i was boosting fine for a while, but a vaccuum line to the FMU was kinked so i was running lean for a while no engine can withstand long periods of a lean a/f ratio.. anyways blew 2 ringlands so i threw in new pistons and rings, but now am not gettin very much compression consistantly in all 4 cyl. The pistons and rings are the right for the application, and valve timing is right. and new head gasket. And im pretty sure its not a stuck valve or non sealing valve because the low compression is in all 4 cyl.. That's why i thought the timing was off, but i've checked it multiple times. I did hone out the cylinder bore also. Anyways.. if you guys know any tests i can run or have any ideas that would be great.. Thanks.

oh and heres a pic of one of the worst cylinders.... all i can say is.. RAPE.

http://i2.tinypic.com/r1idqf.jpg

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

OHH And trust me.. im buying new management as soon as i get it running.

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

What are your compression numbers?Have you broke it in already?

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

headgasket

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

it has not been broken in.. it hasnt started yet because of this problem.. compression is ilke 10 or 20 in all 4 cylinders.

and to chris... is tehre any tests i can run to check the headgasket? again.. the compression is low in all 4 cylinders. There is no pressure coming out the exhaust or intake, and the timing is right, so i've kind of eliminated the valve timing as an issue. And it has the same amount of air coming out the oil cap hole as a running 5sfe engine. I checked. So its not the rings. could a headgasket remove most of the compression from all cyl?? is that likely? Anyways.. Let me know.. Thanks for the feedback so far!

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

10 or 20 psi? Did you do anywork to the head? Adjust the valves?

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

Headgasket is very good possibilty for poor #'s accross the board.leakdown. valve adjustment also

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

no valve work.. just cleaned some.. But im pretty sure valves are seating correctly.

Any tests though chris? There are also no bubbles in the radiator when the car is turned over just to let you know..

Thanks againl.

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

Do a Leak down Test. How dose it run with only 20psi in all 4 :-X

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

and i was talkinga bout tests without leakdown eqipment.. but i guess i'lll have to borrow some or buy some.. anyways.. in the meantime any more feedback would be tite..

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

You could try to poor a little oil down into too the cylinders to see if it bumps the compression up.

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

tried that already.. but thanks for the feedback neways.. there is a little air coming out the intake manfold when i turn it over.. i just discovered this. But the timing marks are aligned properly. hmmm... Any ideas? : ???

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

Im gonna say it HAS to be your valves man, thats crazy low compression

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

i consider that an option, but this problem has gotten me to think very logical and organized because it has been so frustrating. So this is my thinking of that idea. And there is a chance you are right, but this is why im not so sure. I am not trying to be a dick at all.. because i am soo0o glad people have responded to my call for help. But this is some thinking on the your thought.

1.) the valves not sealing right, or sealing incorrectly is very unlikely when the valves were functioning properly prior to the rebuild..

2.) compression being almost eliminated in all 4 cylinders means that most, or all the valves would just have to coincidencially have failed at exactly the same time. Also very unlikely

3.) The air being felt out the intake manifold is VERY apparent.. not just a slight wind. So this means that the intake valves ARE very likely to be opening during some of the compression stroke. it would take very leaky valves to yeild that much air.

So i have come to a 75% conclusion that the timing must be off, and the intake cam is letting some of the air out during the compression stroke, but the timing marks DO ALIGN! because the crank pully is twice the diameter of the cam pully, every other rotation of the crank pully hitting top dead center or 0 degrees, the cam pully is aligned with the proper timing mark. the timing belt is in very good conditing, so that eliminates the timing belt being an issue. The cam pully only fits on the intake camshaft 1 way because of the "notch and hole" design. So how the hell could the intake cam be off?! or is it?---------sigh....... back to base 1. Any good ideas would ------- make my day.. thanks.

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

Did you double check the valve lash? Seems too me you just think its the timming belt.

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

valve lash clearence is fine.

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

did u make sure to overlap the gaps in the rings caus3e if u lined them up in a stright line the air will just leek by to the oil pan and u will have horibble numbers across the board

id pull the pan and the crank and check the rings

if not make sure that your head gasket is not upside down causeing air to leak by

just a thought

good luck man

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

ahh both good thoughts.. but yeah.. i staggered the rings... and the head gasket is in right.. i mean now i've narrowed the problem down to intake cam.... something has to be wrong with a components affecting the intake cam. There is air coming out of the intake manifold when i turn the engine over. I just dont know how the valve timing could be off.

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

check the dash mark on the cam to the gear

u could have lost the little wedge thingy and it could have spun out a little causeing it to open the valves on the exhaust stroke

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

are you double sure your timing is right. :P When you set the timing did you make sure your rotor was pointing at #1?

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

on the distributor???.. you dont need spark to have compression. :P but yes... spark timing is correct.

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

and the wedge thing? turbozcteg?? the timing mark for my cam pully is a hole that lines up with a dot on the last cam journal cap where the seal is placed. and it lines up every other tdc crank rotation.

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

if your intake cams off then your timing will be off because the rotor spins off the intake cam :l

tripple check everything and make sure its cool. retorque your head studs and everything. and if its not pull the head back off to make sure everythings cool

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

i have reinstalled it twice. i am considering all possibilities before i reinstall the head again.. on 5th gen celicas, 5sfe's are a pain to remove the head. But thanks for the advice.

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

it doesnt

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

is that the one with the goofy gears that interlock on the cams so there is only one external cam gear?

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

yup.. 5th gen celica 2.2 5sfe engince code. dohc but with one cam gear.. and a subgear to move the exhaust cam the opposite direction. if that helps at all.. do u know something u have to do on my setup?

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

okay.. so i said earlier that i was pretty sure that the intake cam was screwy, because i was getting puffs of air out the intake manifold. So i was thinking..

the four cycles

1.)intake
2.)compression
3.)explosion
4.)exhaust

NOTE: THE TIMING MARKS WERE PEFECT. BUT I DISREGAURDED THIS IN ORDER FOR MY EXPERIMENT. AND YES I HAVE A NON-INTERFERENCE ENGINE.

the intake vavles seemed to be opening at cycle 2 (compression). Which was one cycle too late or (retarded). So i advanced the valve timing accordingly: because 2 rotations, or 720 degrees of the crank was all 4 cycles,AND 2 full roations of the crank = 1 full rotation of the camshaft pully (360 degrees). So to advance my valve timing 1 cycle is 90 degrees on the cam pully. I did this. Now i have compression =],

but how is that possible for the timing marks to get off?!!]

and the spark timing is now off because the distributor attatches to the intake cam, and it is not alined with the timing marks?! ???

ANY THOUGHTS FROM SOMEONE WITH A MORE EXPERIENCED MIND THAN MY 16YR OLD BRAIN?

Thanks again.

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

just one more thing is your friring order correct just for shits and giggles cause I have feelin thats wrong too :)

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

firing order is correct, but spark timing is all off because i advanced the intake cam which is attatched to the distributor.

and if it helps at all there is about 70psi of compression.. but if you take into consideration that the gauge and things can be off by a little. i would say about 80 ish.. which is about half of what it should be.

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

when you set the timing turn the top cam gear until your rotor is lined up with the cylender number 1 posistion on the cap. Then you put your engine at TDC. use a screwdriver just to be sure. You can have the timing marks lined up and it still be off. If you need to, pull your valve cover and check the cams while they're rotating. You can see pretty easily whats off if you do it like that and crank it over by hand. If you need to take the head off, just pull the whole damn engine. Its so much easyer that way.

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

distributor is at 1. when the engine is at top dead center, but the intake valves are retarded when i do that and open during compression.

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

take the valve cover off and see where the intake cam is right before tdc?

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

------- spin ur cam 180

meaning take off the valve cover and spin it till its 180degrees from what it is now

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

Id pop the VC off and see exactly what the cam lobes are doing w/ respect to piston position. Pretty quick and easy too.

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

the cam pully is twice the diameter of the crank. so when the crank is at TDC every other time it it hitting where you are telling me to move the cam. So there is no point.

Anyways. I HAVE THE BITCH RUNNING.. CORRECT COMPRESSION IN ALL FOUR CYLINDERS.. BUT I THINK IT IS ONLY RUNNING ON ONE CYLINDER. IT IDLES INCREDIBLY ROUGH, AND THERE IS A "ROCK" IN THE ENGINE (WHICH WOULD MAKE SENSE IF IT WAS RUNNING ON ONE CYLINDER. ALSO TO BACK THAT THEORY UP, I PULLED THE PLUGS, AND 1, 2, AND 4 CYLINDER PLUGS ARE BLACK. AND 2 IS FINE. ANYONE HAVE ANY ADVICE? IM THINKIN FUEL PROBLEMS.. BUT MAYBE N OT.

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

Its an ignition problem.

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

?? well i think its firing, because the plugs are black with soot, but i could be wwrong.. what kind of ignition problem? like no spark? or bad timing? i advanced and retarded the spark timing a few degrees, and it did nothing.

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

oh, and if it helps, i'll try to bring the rpms up to like 3500rpm when i took it for a spin around the block, and the power feels like its running on one cyl, and just cuts out. so that's why i think its a fuel problem. any ideas?

Re: +Rebuild, But Now No ComPreSSioN==
 

your old plugs are fouled from all of the gas. Clean em if you have a spark plug cleaner and they'll work again or buy some new ones.:).