Re: The ITB info thread.
 

yeah...i suppose i could just turn aroun and make some money on em......

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

Building another set for a vtechhhhhhhhhh d15b all motooooorrrrrrrr yo



150 whp stock bottom end goal

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

can you go into more detail about tuning the ecu? how does this affect gas mileage? what kind of performance gains (or losses) can be expected? from what i understand you gain throttle control, and loose bottom end power, what can be expected as far as HP goes?

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

Car runs like a racecar with ITBs. Tuning the ECU is a lot like tuning a normal ECU, only it's more finicky and you don't always get small hiccoughs out of the midrange/part throttle. If tweaked correctly the idle is very good, but it fluctuates and hunts a little sometimes, especially when cold. Fuel economy HAHAHAHA, well it might be pretty good if you use cruise control, but everytime you pat the gas pedal the injectors shoot a LOT of gas down the intake bores.

I really don't understand wtf everyone yammers about throttle control/throttle response for, most of these cars are no-power situations where you need to be WOT even in the corners. If you can't be WOT your suspension and lack of LSD is the problem, not whether or not you have ITBs. HP is going to be inline with what you'd get out of a correctly set up single plane manifold, but since everyone making DIY-ITBs grabs motorcycle ITBs that are too small for their target power don't expect to do anything but lose power. I've made comments before that 954RR (38mm throttle blades) ITBs are really well suited for bone stock DOHC ZC or SOHC VTEC. If you plan on making 5 (or 10 at a stretch) more whp then you should really go bigger. Most people try to half-assed build engines and go smaller - but they have m4d ti-ite JDM ITBz, dawg! - so it doesn't matter to them.

Motorcycle ITBs on a B-series, unless you are running 'busa or bigger $$$$ units, is a waste of time. The D-series, however, have a pretty shitty selection of single plane manifolds to choose from, so if you *correctly* size your ITBs you can make good gains with good tuning. Look at what the donor motorcycle makes stock, look at what the donor motorcycle makes tweaked a little with stock ITBs; it won't be much more, most people kill power tinkering with new bikes that are already cracked out from the factory. Now you know what power level they support. Is this the power level you are looking for?

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

thanks alot, that answered alot of questions, i was planning on doing this to my b18a but since i may actually loose power i guess i wont be going that route. thanks alot for the answers though!

oh just a question, how do you loose power? i was under the impression that more flow=more power

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

that's what i used to think...just listen to JD he's right on this...and yes...if you're really looking for power in a b series, turbo IS the way to go........

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

For naturally asphxiated no power cars, more flow is usually more power. Do you really think motorcycle ITBs the size of drinking straws aren't a restriction? n00b, go post some porn already.

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

hello, i am new here. i was wondering wich size of the gsxr would be best for my build?

i have a B16a sir II
itr exhaust cam
ctr intake cam
port flow retainers
itr valve springs
ctr pistons
buddy club cam gears
ngk wires and plugs
ported head
custom header

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

Stock cams and bolt ons. You might make 145 whp. Go find a 145whp motorcycle, remove it's ITBs.

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

Ok JD...I'll ask you since you have alot more knowledge on this whole itb setup situation. I found a place near me that's pretty much a boneyard for street bikes (for some reason they're a huge thing in my area ::) ). Would it even be beneficial for me to look into an itb setup for my ls/vtec? I'm not talking basic bolt-on crap either like the guy above, expecting to see around 200-ish+ whp. So far I sit at 12.75:1 c/r, as soon as I can get my subaru back together for the winter I'm ripping the b16a head out of my hatch and taking it to one of my friend's shop so we can work on it. We're going to do a port-match and polish, Omni flat faced valves, Omni springs and probably their locking retainers. I plan on flow-testing the head during the whole process and see how much additional cfm I can get out of it. And seeing as how my friend grinds race-cams, he's going to do me a huge favor and grind me something custom based off of the usual itr cam that can match to both my springs and motor as much as possible. So what I'd like to know from you is if there is any hmt style itb's that would be large enough to support this, or would it just be a miserable waste of time and I should just stick with either an aebs or blox type run of the mill intake manifold?

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

Yeah, how else do you think the guys who steal streetbikes get titles for them? They buy wrecked frames with titles from said boneyard.

Unless the new 1.6 'busas are running something unusually large I'd skip over motorcycle ITBs entirely. Your power can be made off a single plane IM with no problem, and keep a stock idle and driveability. I'm a big advocate of simplicity. *shrug*

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

The simple fact that most people dont want to hear


ITB's are more a pain than pleasure


For the typical joe a nice manifold like an aebs,blox,itr for the b series head with proper porting and a good size throttlebody 65-70mm plate area is where power will be made on 190+whp b series builds. Also like JD has said tuning a plenum all motor set up in my opinion is very stright forward and in the skills of anyone with basic ecu skills can get the job done on the street in 2 hours, atleast thats my experince


Key too all motor builds is cfm. I have seen what it take to make alot of power on all motor builds being close with one of the first guys to start the all motor than back when I was still riding a skateboard


He achieved 190 whp b16a over 6 years ago on ctr cams,pm6 ecu w/some generic chip rpm switch,ported gsr head,gsr manifold,70 mm rpm tb the first generation when Jon at RPM and Dave at dhracing first made the design that was only a straight through inlet no taper



The key with that build was simple the head flowed and made power. Im comfortable to say that head with proper tuning a header built for a b16a, had an edelbrock and tuned on crome would of been a 200 whp build all on a old school b16a1 shortblock



Conclusion want to make power all motor have a friend who knows how to get 300 cfm out of a head or pay 1000+

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

would ITBs benefit an 89 accord which makes like 90whp? im planning on doing a turbo build when spring comes, but i wanna have fun with some ITBs im getting for cheap

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

Nope. If it's the carb'd version, one of your weakest links is the lack of mpfi. If you're lucky enough to have one of said lx-i's, then the head is more or less the weakest link. I used to rev mine up to 7000 and all I can say is monster valve float after the 5500 mark, especially if the motor's got some miles on it. New valvetrain and a cam helps them quite a bit, along with some port work to help those stock 12 valves breathe a little better. Best of all, cams for those motors are dirt cheap. ;D Replacing the stock restrictive exhaust also helps alot as well, especially after said head work is done.between the experience both myself and my friend have, I'm pretty sure we could get that 300cfm number. And after reading your's and JD's comments and doing some research, I'll probably just stick with an aebs type of manifold with a larger TB. Why make things more complicated than they have to be.

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

ive got the ex-i(canadian version of the lx-i). the head that ive got recieved a 5 angle valve grind, port and polish, port match and basically brand new valve train. so that will help it flow a bit better hopefully. wouldnt ITBs help make more power due to the fact that the total throttle area is well over what a single TB would be? its like a 60mm going againest 4 43mm TBs, so shouldnt the ITBs make more power overall?

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

ITBs are about airmass and velocity, comparing total throttle area between pure pulsed flow and mixed pulse-differential flow makes as much sense as comparing dick size with a horse.

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

good enough... so does the head ive got help out with some airflow if i get a decent B series intake manifold and redrill it for the head?

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

Boost on that motor is the best way for max airflow >:D Iron block, reworked head, and boost...a match made in heaven ;D

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

thats kinda what i had in mind, but i wanna try ITBs/megasquirt to be different rather then the typical SAFC/BTM

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

I dunno...itb's and boost just sounds like a headache, not just for tuning but as in leaking-wise as well. If it's converted to lx-i (pgm-fi) I think you could run a chipped pm6 on it...both are still pre-obd. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here :P

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

god damn it can someone make me a set of ITB for and H23.

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

I can

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/9185/itbtc9.th.jpg



http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/648/itb2vy3.th.jpg




A set I built awhile back for another HMT user. b18b1 motor.

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

And you didn't post up these pics previously because?? >:(

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

Im llazy. I have built 5 sets of these now I only took pics of those. Last ones got custom velocity stacks


Those were modified olds school stacks I found at a junkayrd. They had a 65mm inlet and went down to a 40mm backside if memeory serves me right.


I just took them to my belt sander brough them down till they were around 52mm on the small side. Then used epoxy to fit them on but they were very tight already by the time I installed them.


Maybe I should actually take pics of my cars,shop and everything else I do

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

Those look clean nice work Chris

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

Dee dee dee

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

eee eee eee

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

alright pm me so we can work something out.

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

Doing a new set for a dohc zc. Should have pics in a couple weeks

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

That doesn't suck.

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

http://www.rickwrench.com/images-sou...nturichart.jpg

Keep in mind that this picture is an old school CARB picture. CARBs can't infer load based off throttle angle as venturi effect requires a pressure differential aka vacuum. It's also from the day where hp per liter sucked, so the numbers are pretty low. All in all, it's a great chart if you figure it'll direct you to ITBs that are way too small for your engine... which is still larger than some of you asshats are trying to run.

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

So how much does one of your B-series itb sets go for Chris? My buddy with the 92gsr's been going on non-stop about how he wants itb's in the worst way. I swear to god if I hear "Toda" one more time... :7

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

just got a set of hayabusa 1300's. Kids dont ever get involved in all motor stuff its crack and not that great.

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

Haha...tell me about it, I've been looking over my all-motor budget and the small amount of parts that I've bought with it just to try and squeeze a few extra ponies out. I found a set of gsxr 1000's TB setup on ebay, I'm gonna try and get them just for a mid-month project. Even if I don't make any extra power (which I highly doubt it'll do, but you never know) it'll be a learning experience. I'd rather say I tried it and learned from it than just read about it and just repeat it like the H-T assclowns. :1

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

well the busa's are suppose to be 46mm at the plate which will support plenty of power. I was always doing some researching and there are bike companies that bore them over to 48mm which is well more than enough volume for a typical 200-220 whp ls/vtec



The ae101 itb's are also a route I have thought about trying since they are flanged. This is the platform toda uses for their set ups.



48mm busa's would be very nice on a mild compression b20vtec

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

04-05 cbr 1000rr ITB just measured them ;)

velocity stack < 50mm tapered down to 44mm at the plates, then tapered back up to 50mm > injector side.

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

04-05 cbr 1000rr
upper and lower injectors are they same part number 16450-mel-003

Contacted factory pro today with some results the injectors flow 98ml every 20 seconds at 43 psi

So, that makes them 294cc/min injectors at 43 psi
So, that makes them 315cc/min injectors at 50 psi

Re: The ITB info thread.
 

you knwo i never thought about it but it would be kind of nice to see an itb'ed 4dr ek.. i had thought about the S2 mani but i dont know now.. i know it would be a big pain in the ass but could it be worth trying on a bone stock y8 probably not but humor me anyway