How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

I know the releative basics apply to any honda motor, b16, b18, etc. But how does one make power out of a b16 when you're limited to the work you can do to it? Basicly this is the scenario. One of my friend's has a del-sol vtec he wants to run ustcc, and with both of us having b16's currently, we're exploring how we can stretch the power limits of this motor with limited mods being performed as per ustcc rules. Basicly it breaks down like this...you cannot increase the displacement except by an overbore as required for rebuild purposes, you can do headwork but you're not allowed to run aftermarket cam profiles and such, you must retain stock intake manifold but you are allowed an intake and header and exhaust. You can change your compression though and you can run aftermarket ecu management like Crome or BRE. Pretty much it looks like p30's, a shave job, and some serious port work are about the only thing that'll help pump out some more ponies, anybody else have any insights to perhaps be able to coax 170hp out of one of these to be able to keep up with the competition?

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

run second gen b16a cams....more agressive then 1st gens but not wild like type R's.....and they are stock components for ur b16a i guess u could say.....a mean flowbench head port an polish an 3 angle valve job would be up next.....can u port out the stock intake mani an TB? i mean other then that look at lightening a few things up.Like maybe go with a Civic R crank pulley and a lighter crank if it's allowed.

Classes like that really want everyone to be at equal levels so it boils down to driver and car setup...those classes are fun to run in...i would look at suspension more then worry to much about engine work...

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

itr cams :)

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

ctr intake cam

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

the 2nd get cams are barely any different from USDM cams ::)

ITR cams if they'll let you swing it, if not then in theory the 2nd gen cams do have the largest lift and duration aside from the r cams i believe. Will they let you knife edge the crank? How about you throw another set of inner valve springs on the exhaust side so all of them are double wound.

oh wait i got the answer... Turbonator O0

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

Trust me...suspension is not an issue. The car is gutted and caged right now, not sure of exact weight but it's not bad. Even with the current 100% stock b16 it'll run under 38 seconds for a 1/2 mile course.
As far as cam options, I'm really not sure if we could get away with itr/ctr cams. Gsr cams maybe, but it'll definately suck if they decide to huff the motor. You're allowed port work on the intake and tb as well, so it's definately worth looking into.

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

imo you of tons of options


can you run an aftermarket throttle body or only re bore the factory unit

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

I do believe you can run an aftermarket tb, although most guys seem to go with an overbore of the stock unit and port-match the intake plenum.

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

that would prolly be best bet.....overbore ur stock units and go with some nice second gen cams....if they check ur motor they will get stock numbers off those cams compared to say if u throw gsr or itr cams in....People swore up an down that i had some aftermarket cams in my second gen b16'd crx because i was cleaning up other 1st gen b16'd crx's by a car or two.

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

Yank that head off and mill .040" off of it, itr cams, 3 angle valve job, upgraded valve train, rev that fucker out to 10000rpm to make 105ft/lb's of torque

Id bet your looking for lower end power though

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

You obviously don't understand the concept of ustcc then. At least 90% of the time the motor will sit above the 5k rpm mark where it produces it's peak power. Milling is an option, but you can only go so far, itr cams and aftermarket valvetrain are not allowed. Second gen b16 cams are though...as long as they still fall in the b16 family, they're allowed.

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

No I dont know what a USTCC course looks like, i assumed you meant parking lot solo type ----, tight turns.

Mill that ------- head with some itr cams, ported intake and stock t/b, spendy exhaust manifold if youre aloud, great tune and 94 octane

200whp N/A pylon stomper

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

USTCC has class specific rules for the chassis. Minimal aftermarket engine mods is one of the rules, no itr/ctr/gsr cams. They must be stock b16 cams, but one's from any gen b16 can be used. It's a touring car class, so it has similarities to scca solo events, but it's all done on track, and you're actually racing against other drivers instead of their times. I still have a few more hours of class time, and then some track tests before I get my license, but I think my old vscca license may hold some sway with the amount of time I have to put in. They're very strict and harsh with track rules, if they applied the rules to nascar you would only have a handful of drivers out on track throughout the race. :P

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

Dude there's a boatload of ---- you can do. Get some CTR pistons, headwork...yada yada yada. Don't both the B16 and C5 have the same marking on them? Do they pull the cams out to measure the lift or something? Just build a poorman's ITR but with a B16 shortblock.

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

i could've sworm that the c5 markings are p72? am i wrong?

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

Well honda challange I know was tearing ---- down so Im sure if someone is making 30+whp of the comp something is up



Factory ported manifold
68mm tb
ported head 300 cfm
stock valves
p30 cams
p30 pistons=ctr's are asking for doom



Good head you should be around 175 whp. I love how everyone thinks 200 whp all motor on a 1.6 is easy



I would also replace the old beat up factory springs with some crowers since the motor will be seeing high rpm's for minutes at a time last thing you want is a 20 year old b16a single spring set up in a motor :1




But Ill quote the rest of people who have never been around this kind of stuff



skunk2 boyyyeee 200 whp b16a=walk through the park my boyee makes 250 on his lsvtechhhhhhhhhhh

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

Lol...nice. Chris has the lowdown on b16 work, that's why I love picking his brain. Pretty much what you posted is probably what we're going to do...the headwork itself is going to be the hardest to do.
Lol, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but like stated ustcc has rules you have to follow for engine mods. What they do is "huff" the engine. Basicly it tells them what size the displacement is and how large of a cam you have in the motor by the amount of cfm that flows through during the test. If you don't fall into their test parameter range they make you take the head off and cams out so they can visually inspect it to make sure. It's all about levelling the playing field so nobody has a particular advantage and it brings it down to driver skill and suspension setup.

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

While were on the topic of throttle body sizing I dont care what the hype is. 65mm+is what you want for any all motor dohc vtechhhhhh build



Hey if you want I have 68mm tb's in stock :)



The headwork for sure is where your going to find the power. Good headwork and good mild cams=best of both worlds

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

Do you normally see gains on a 65mm+ tb? This might be something I want to look into for my ls/vtec... :y

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

yes atleast 6 whp+ in higher rpms but will lose some torque down low but its all motor rev the ---- out of it

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

The breaking period of your motor should affect your overall power very much. Given the fact that the seated rings will be compressing your power. I remember back many years ago...talking with a few buddies of mine from dynamics autosport, we were debating about the power difference with the ring set for the pistons. If you follow proper textbook procedures for proper ring sets and positions...you sill have a certain % of compressed power leaked through. While setting the rings slightly differnt from the text specs...showed a slight increase in compression. The differnt placements was still gap free from the compression and power stroke. I'm sure the power and compression difference is nill but seems like something to look into. Especially with na...everything counts. There was also many discussion about knife edging, weighted, and reduced weight cranks. All things you should look into. Just food for thought. I do believe the major power will come from the head and cams....but don't count out these other factors. GL to you.

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

shot peen and micro polish the stock rods
use p30 ctr pistons
use p30 ctr cams
use either ctr or itr valve springs and retainers
have a 3 angle valve job done
port and polish the ---- out of the head
port the hell out of the stock intake mani.
port the stock throttle body
use a good quality intake and header, with full exhaust
chip and tune the computer

and you'll notice this set up has no aftermarket parts except the intake/header/exhaust, and i gaurantee this set up will rip in the high rpm's for auto x....

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

it pays to read :y no itr/ctr/gsr parts. Only b16. Hmm...i guess most ppl think its easy to put over 200 to the wheels with a b16 ::)

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

i read a story is some car mag a couple years ago about b16's and they had said back then that you could count the number of 200 WHP b16 on one hand.. and that with alot of work.. its not super hard to put them up in the 170-185 WHP range with nothing more than cams headwork ect. but to get one to clip that magic 200 # it takes alot of time and effort... i say do exactly as chris states as he is the all motor guy and does it for a living.. im also sure he has done quite a few b16 all motor that are up in the 170-180 range..

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

Lol...I think you're right. Most people hear that magic "ooh b16 mad dual cam vtec action yo!" and think 200hp is at their fingertips. From the amount of digging around I've been doing it seems the majority of the ustcc b16 equipped cars are making around the 170 range, so as long as we can get up to that or close we should have no problems being competetive.

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

I hit over 200 whp with a b16.


vrrrooooom.....pssst.


I swear it was all motor!


Yeah. I've heard MILLIONS of people claim over 200 whp with their b16. I've only seen 1. But I have seen many more b18cs! GL on the competition Slo! I'm sure you'll get it just right!

Re: How does one make n/a hp from a b16?
 

If we wanted to go that route I hit 317 from my b16 last summer ;) All stock motor to boot ;D