HMT Style LS/VTEC?
 

Hey guys, before you say it - yes I searched. I got 10 pages of results...none relevant to what I'm looking for. What I'm looking for is the opinions of HMT members who have built an LS/VTEC.

I searched over at H-T and it was mostly all motor related. Oh joy, thats not what I'm going to use mine for. Looking a little deeper they started suggesting stuff like GSR oil pumps and water pumps...okay seems like a good idea. Then they said OEM Honda bearings are a MUST. Alright, I can understand that but I'm a little iffy on it. I've seen HMT members use like ACL and stuff with no problems...and Jeff with the NAPA rings, that was awesome.

What really bothered me was when they started saying that the block needs to be bored and honed by a machine shop, and a main girdle upgrade from GE is also a really good idea, but then you also need an align hone and some other garbage.

The final thing that pushed me into making this post was the fact that they said you MUST have the entire rotating assembly balanced.

Okay what the ----. Help me out here HMT, is that ---- nescessary? Do I really need to have the block bored and honed regardless, and then the entire rotating assembly balanced?

HMT has sort of a reputation of doing ---- yourself for free or cheaply. The local machine shop here really blows ass, they don't know ---- about imports. The last time I took them a honda cylinder head (b16) they told me the third rocker for VTEC is just useless crap that is an engineer's worst nightmare. Then the person I sold the head to said the resurfacing job wasn't level and generally sucked. I want to avoid a trip to the machine shop if at all possible.

So I'm asking HMT's opinion - is it possible to build an LS/VTEC without making a trip to the machine shop? Do I really need to have the rotating assembly balanced and the sleeves bored? I know I'll need them honed since I'm planning on going to forged pistons...but I've been told I can do a ball hone myself with a simple drill attatchment from autozone. Is that true?

If I do have to take it to a machine shop, does anybody know of a reputable one in the midwest? Indianapolis or Chicago area?

What would you guys consider as "required" work for an LS/VTEC that won't self destruct in a few thousand miles?

Re: HMT Style LS/VTEC?
 

a vtec oil pump.
vtec head
conversion dowels
oil supply line for head
ls head hasket
head studs
b18c timing belt

hizone it your self to get a cros hatch and asemble the fucker

thats all id use that s all i was gonna use, until my car got stolen.

Re: HMT Style LS/VTEC?
 

we just put one together. ls bottom end, gsr head, oil line etc. nothing else

Re: HMT Style LS/VTEC?
 

also depends on what water pump you use for the timming belt. i think it go's.. ls water pump, use the ls timming belt... vtec water pumps, use the a gsr timming belt.

as for the oil pump i would upgrade to a vtec or b20 one.

i also read somewhere that using the gsr block girdle is a good idea. but in doing this you need all the parts to make it work. such as the pan, pick-up, bolts and what not.
i guess it strengthens up the bottom end.

Re: HMT Style LS/VTEC?
 

flat rate style would consist of nothing more then a vtec head,vtec oil pump,ls head gasket,and your oil line, got my friends oil line at a semi truck air hose place made for like 17 bucks hella cheap and good. my old ls vtec was this setup only the pistons were cryo treated and the rods shot peened, but i still had stock rod bolts and revved to 8k.

Re: HMT Style LS/VTEC?
 

...I think new bearings and ARP rod bolts would be a good idea.

LS rodbolts are tiny and weak

Re: HMT Style LS/VTEC?
 

if your going turbo i wouldnt use them, u dont need to take it to 8200 anyway stock with turbo it would be just fine shifting out in the high 7k's, all motor wise i would definatly replace the rod bolts.

Re: HMT Style LS/VTEC?
 

well if your gonna shift at 7 grand then there would be no point in even doing an ls/vtec... thats why people do them ;)

Re: HMT Style LS/VTEC?
 

I knew I could count on Hotrex ;D

Thanks for the input guys

Re: HMT Style LS/VTEC?
 

Make sure the water pump you get has 22 teeth. Not 19. :y

Re: HMT Style LS/VTEC?
 

Any 96+ B-series oil pump will work or older vtec pumps
Conversion Dowls are not neccesary, you can easily drill the head and just the stock dowls
Dont forget you do have to block off a oil passage in the head, by either welding it, or tapping it and putting a plug in it.
A b18c timing belt wont work unless you use a GSR water pump, no real advantage with one. Just use the LS pump and the LS timing belt.

Head studs and ARP rod studs do help but are not neccesary.

Re: HMT Style LS/VTEC?
 

arp's are the ----

Re: HMT Style LS/VTEC?
 

well I have done about 4 or 5 ls/vtec's in the last year and half or so. I have found a few things a must and a few a nice thing to have. here is my list of things I would get to do it hmt style and still last.


ls timing belt and water pump
like abaz said either a 96+ oil pump or any vtec motor oil pump
stealth mode ls/vtec oil line and plug kit. best deal and best quality I have seen for the price yet: )
drill the dowl pin holes out and reuse the dowels
ls head gasket
arp rod bolts
I have used king bearings in my last setup and they have prefromed good but if I had the extra $$ I would probably go acl.
thats the cheap way

list of stuff I run

ls timing belt and water pump
ls head gasket
arp rod bolts in my book are a must, I have spun rod bearings on being cheap and not getting arp's
arp head studs
gsr oil pump
sleathmode ls/vtec conversion kit
king bearings main's and rods

as far as balancing frick I never do lol I shift many times daily at 8500 and have seen 9500+ and still held together. except when I had the stock rod bolts. I spung a rod bearing in like 3 months with those

Re: HMT Style LS/VTEC?
 

I was planning on getting the GE conversion anyway. I was mostly worried about honing the cylinder walls and balancing the rotating assembly. I'll probably skip messing with the water pump and just replace the timing belt with a regular LS. Since I was planning on upgrading to forged pistons and rods anyway I'm not too worried about ARP bolts on the rods since they'll probably come with ARP anyway. I'll use the money I saved from not ------- with the water pump on a set of ARP's for the head.

Good info guys :-*

Re: HMT Style LS/VTEC?
 

normaly you replce the water pump with the timing belt.... if you dont need to replace the water pump theres nothing wrong with just doing a fresh LS belt though.

and also why would you want to drill your head when they make adapter dowels that are like less than 20 bux on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA...spagenameZWDVW

god dam you probably dont own the right size drill bit anyway and youd have to buy it and it would be like 15 bux or you could get a set of dowels made for what your doing for under 20... hmmmm

anyway overbore if your cyl walls are out of round otherwise rehone and get your piston to wall clearance set for forged pistons (since its different than stock). certainly dont need to balance though, i mean its nice but i doubt youd be revving to the moon so... anyway gl

oh yeah and a full set of acls will set ya back maybe 100 bux (about half what stock runs) and are BETTER bearings than oem LS bearings. unless you plan on runnin vtec bearings your better off with ACL despite what the OEM bearing nazis say

Re: HMT Style LS/VTEC?
 

Normally if its leaking or for people who have a hard time doing a timing belt and dont ever wanna take it off again.

Or you can buy a cheap drill bit or borrow someone elses and drill it out and save 20 bucks, and not wait 5 days to get the dowls. I've drilled out about 6 ls/vtec heads, its pretty easy.

I'm not a oem bearing nazi by any means.. But Factory bearings are by far better than ACL's.. ACL's are one size fits all made in austrailia, and everyone knows honda bottom ends are not all identicle. Example 88dx's 5min ls/vtec used all ACL bearings, Why didnt it last?

Re: HMT Style LS/VTEC?
 

its so worth it to plastiguage each bearing

Re: HMT Style LS/VTEC?
 

exactly!

Re: HMT Style LS/VTEC?
 

I understand teh recommendation is to use the VTEC oil pump. There have been some threads about using the gsr pickup, girdle, and pan... Is this an absolute necessity?

I have a gsr oil pump already but dont feel like spending another $150 or so on gsr oil parts if I can use the LS oil pumps, etc and especially if they work just as well. Any thoughts?

Re: HMT Style LS/VTEC?
 

i think those items are just for using a gsr girdle.