H22A Forged Piston DYNO RESULTS update 8-17-07
 

Ok this is asking bigdaddyvtec a qustion since he has the most experience with H22's. Did you have knock when you first started your car? Was your head/block milled any and did it throw off your cam timing? I have my H22A turbo Holset H1C Eg hatch scheduled to go on the dyno this friday. A friend thats not so local swung by to check out the finished good and he also has a forged piston set up but its in a 3000gt vr4. So I started up the car with the lap top connected and I know that you have piston slap when first turning over but he noticed on the S300 that I was still holding 5V's of knock after the radiator fan even kicked on. The car runs ok and when I drive it for a bit the knock goes away and when I pull in the garage its still not present till about 5 min later then it comes back. So is it slap or something else. I check the valve lash after it cooled for 5 hrs and still .07 on the intake and .08 on the exhaust. I Checked between the rocker arm and the tappet on the of the valve/retainer area. Is this right?
PLEASE SOMEONE THAT KNOWS H22A's HELP

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

Did you put forged pistons in an unsleeved H22 block?

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

he probably did and the FRM sleeves are not happy about it.

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

He claims to have a sleeved block. Perhaps too much piston/wall clearance?

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

Knock that comes and goes? :/

What are the difference in the coolant temps logged via the S300 when it is and when it isn't knocking? Also, what are the oil pressures?

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

For you dumb asses that cant read from the past it's a forged Ross 88mm 9:1comp piston with L.A. ductile iron 93mm sleeves outer diameter. But back to a great question. J.D. the coolant temps read from first start up at around 100* "summer time" and when it's warmed up and crusing it's registering around the 170* - 195* mark. When it reached the +165* mark it goes away and anything less than that the knock comes back. The gap of the rings is set up by Ross specs. My friend has J.E. and his pings for about 3min after start up and goes away but mine seems to last longer than that. Oil pressure reads normal around 60-80, it's got the prodrive oil pump gear and is also shimmed to increase oil pressure

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

interesting. Any chance you can get some sound up here?

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

Nah I have a hard enough time trying to get pics up but you can go to here ====> http://videos.streetfire.net/video/b...7c005c44cb.htm see no knock because I just drove it for about 5min but then if you let it cool and just run sitting still for a but it gets knock again.

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

60 psi at idle? Wowzers.

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

No No No crap I mis worded it. Its around 60 to 80 at WOT after the VTAK is enabled after 5600rpm. Sorry about that J.D.

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

Jesus hates mayd wide body kits, that is the one and only answer to your question.

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

No. If Jesus hates anything it's H22.

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

I'm starting to not like your thoughts JD HAHAHA but I'm in denial and I love H's just not the built ones at the moment

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

My forged setup had a slight knock, then I spun a rod

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

i love the noobs that go 'zomg, i got my block bored to 93mm and i got 93mm pistons after i got the block bored, is it okay if the pistons wiggle?' in threads.

learn to ------- buy pistons, take them AND the block to the machine shop, then have them bore the block to the pistons, one cylinder at a time.

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

:y

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

damn that sucks man.. like these guys are saying it has to be an issue with pistons slapping around in the bore when it's cold. when the motor warms up it probably all expands enough for it to go away. The only way of fixing it is buying oversized pistons >:( and like they said have the cylinders bored to match the pistons.

and for the record IMHO his car is the only car ive seen where I actually halfway like the widebody kit. and all his work looks top notch on the body work. he just needs some more experiance with the motor side of things ;D

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

your wife is a coke ----- maybe that is the problem

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

:y

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

Well I dug deep into the friends with friend at the local strip tonight. I took off work and went to a friends house Billy Price that has the same pistons with different compression, same sleeves, same motor, same bearing brand, same block builder and assembler with the car on the trailer. I started up the car and it had the same sound as Billy's, but then after 5 min his went away and mine went away about 1 min after his, so we were curious and made a call. Well put it in his shop called the engine builder James Mount, and we went full force with trouble shooting the problem. We dropped the pan, splash guard, and took a light and shined it up to the sleeves and they looked legit but still could not see the pistons sides of course, we checked the oil under a micro scope, no shavings of aluminum. We pulled the plugs and James put his fiber-optic camera in each port and still everything looked ok. James noticed that the oil was dark for only having 1800 miles on it and we thought the turbo was coked up, checked the turbo and it's a lil coked but cleaning up with the fresh oil. He checked the rod bolts and they were ok torque wise. James said he set the specs the same as Billy's per Ross Piston. So we pulled the head and rotated the crank and the sleeves are not scarred. Piston tops were fine, valves were fine, the lash was fine prior to pulling it, so everything is ok.

I just got home 5:21AM and the motor is back together and and I just got done putting the fresh oil back in but I'm going to wait to start it cause the neighbors will get pissed. I'll update early am and take a vid of it.

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

haha your funny but seriously stop it.

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

---- It I started the car and and about 4 min the knock went away and I check the Hondata knock voltage and it reads only 1.14 voltes, I'm ordering a J&S knock sensor when I get up. I called Billy and he said his reads about 2.1 so I guess I'm safe. And EACH CYLINDER WAS BORED MATCH, what engine builder does not do that? Seriously I had a outstanding pro builder do it not some off the wall shop that claims it. He builds motors for alot of SCCA racers, i had to wait 4 months to get mine in.
And heres Billy car its at the end of my run from 2 years ago. http://videos.streetfire.net/video/b...0c005313fc.htm

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/4...ochlorieo8.jpg



what were you doing till 5:21

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

How much compression are you running?

I never had any knock problems with our GE sleeved H22. 9:1 Comp CP Pistons...

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

88mm Ross Piston with 9:1 compression, total seal rings.

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

Total seal sucks.

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

Rings arent sealing properly until warmed up (after heating up the rings expand a bit and seal up) Would be my guess. Seems to jive with all the other symptoms. That would give you a little bit more then avarage carbon build up in the oil and cylinder, and maybe Im thinking give your turbo a little coke job.

Probably not a severe compression loss

How many miles on this build? This may also just be the rings breaking themselves in

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

there is nothing special about an SCCA motor

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

Roughly 300 miles would be my best guess. But the sound is in the head in the valve train area. But since i pulled the head i have to reset the value lash now. That could be the reason now. Sounds more on the #1# 2 side than any where else. Cam bearing?

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

hondas dont have cam bearings... :1

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

All depends on the class you're in. Sports Car Club of America goes further than just your average run-of-the-mill solo or solo2 event. They are everywhere. ;)

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

one other thing proving this kids stupidity

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

It's real easy to lash valves and get it wrong. I've done it. Triple check, and if it still makes noise then redo.

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

my buddy just built his 2.5L subaru motor - and he also had that problem of the slapping noise - the guys at PNL told him that it was normal piston slap because the ring gap was a little larger than normal (i guess the larger the ring gap the less friction on the cylinder walls = more horsepower?) he said that they have the same noise in their drag car as well. so it is probably just piston slap

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

OK once again I worded it wrong, so what do you call the surface area that holds the cams down and allows them to rotate with out restriction. The best word I could come up with is a bearing cause it keeps it in place and allows movement just like a bearing. If worn out it would allow the cam to flex and also make a ticking sound. But it's on the trailor with out no knock now and "DMC1 will like this this" pulling a straight 20psi of vaccume.

Cracker stay out if you dont have any legit ---- to say you ------- homo.

Re: H22A Forged Piston=knock? BIGDADDYVTEC HELP
 

dude I'm a simpleton compared to JD. But it's good you got your cam gears in time. now maybe it'll make some power.

Re: H22A Forged Piston DYNO RESULTS update 8-17-07
 

Well got it on the dyno today and at 6psi I got 239hp, then at 10 psi I got 268hp, then at 17 psi/spike then to 15psi I got 301 with the tires slipping on the dyno. At first we thought the clutch the way it souded like revvvvv blaahhhh revvvvv, but with the H22A it hangs low and the DP was sitting pretty much on the dyno belt guard"we knew from the beginning" But we looked at the tires and they were slipping"sticky and clean" on the tracks cause the cars whole weight was not on the tracks. So I called it the day cause we took it to 24psi and did a nasty 5th pull and put 361hp to the wheels with the tires smoking. DMC1 your map was right on with the stock MAP, Billy Roberts said for a street tune you could of not done any better. We switch to the GM 3bar"and ------- hondata does not have a preloaded scaler, so we had to call them and get the specs and run under a custom map" hint hint xenocron with your 4 bar motorola" and went with a hight boost after the 10 psi mark and got satisfied and out of reserved time. So my bitch ass has been up since 2pm yesterday and now it 6pm and finish this message up and hitting the recliner and sleep with a fan. CHING CHONG mani,,,,---- you yall it did well, is no different than your homemade ram horns with out any proven facts that your 1 a better welder and talk ----, 2 dyno results vs a ching chong.

Hee you go Dennis http://videos.streetfire.net/video/5...8d012d51af.htm
268hp/237trq dont have the paper but this was done with a not so aggressive ignition advance and with 10 psi"not the 6psi that was tunned for" on DMC1's stock map settings