Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

Block posting, this is an alternitive for those lame ass block guards, and for people that cannot afford to sleeve there blocks. Posting and Pinning has been around for several years. It is used in Nascar and other forms of racing. Larry (theoldone) uses this on lots of his Honda engines he builds, and he actually did my built ZC w/ pins. I figured this time I could do it myself, since it didnt look to hard.

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/tech/pin/block2.jpg

First starting off with some pins/posts. Basically there are little threaded studs, that are made up of the exact same alloy as the honda/acura aluminum block. This is so when the block heats up and cools down. The studs will do the exact same. I got this set of 12 studs from (endyn) for 35 bucks.

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/tech/pin/block1.jpg

Drilling 4 holes in the center of each sleeve about 3/8 of the way down (from the top). Why not put these pins at the top of the cylinders? well, all cracks in sleeves normally start midway up.

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/tech/pin/block3.jpg

Then threading the holes in the block with a tap. You will need 2 taps for this, since the main cut tap with the tapper will hit the sleeve real quick, then you will need another tap that has the end cut off, so you can get threads all the way through the outter block.

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/tech/pin/block4.jpg

This is the intake side, we use 2 pins per cylinder, Larry claims he has found the thrust axis points on these blocks, thus the intake side having more load, and using 2 pins insted of one. This makes it kind of a bitch, because there really isnt the best spots for this. I kinda went wherever the ---- I wanted, anywhere that was flat. I really didnt feel like cutting the webbing off the block to make it absoultly perfect.

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/tech/pin/block7.jpg

The pins are torqued to 2inch pounds.... YES 2 inch pounds, that's like hardly anything. Anything more could distort the sleeves. Be sure that the area around the pin hole is really clean, then I applied JB weld on the threads and all over the stud so it would stay in place. Larry says its not a good idea, but I think he said this just so Endyn wouldnt look bad "ya use JB WELD" LOL.. He recommend using the Devcon liquid Aluminum stuff. I think JB will work just fine. (we will find out soon enough ;)

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/tech/pin/block5.jpg

Be sure to clean out all the metal shavings really well, and let the epoxy sit up for atleast a day before you install the engine.

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/tech/pin/block6.jpg

All done... btw, this is my B20b Block that is going in my Red CRX... CRVtec 8)

Jeff

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

I thought you were supposed to get the block honed after you do that???? Can't wait to see if this works out for you. Nice write up. :)
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Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

good write up, but make it "sticky" for a bit, that'll stop (or hopefully at least slow) the questions once it falls off the first page.

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

thankz jeff for the write up, i talked to sonny at http://www.muller.net/crx/, and he told me when you put in the screws dip them in epoxy, then screw them in...but i think it doesnt really matter...and he told me after doing all this, its best to hone the block...

im also in the process of putting a B20Vtec Turbo Into my EG hatch, how many pounds are u planning on running?

henry

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

Probably 12psi on the street..

probably is a good idea to hone the block afterwards, but I didnt.

Ya, I just put a little epoxy on the threads, so it wouldnt leak.

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

Nice write up.

In your race ZC what type of sleeves did you get done?

I have seen a "Godzilla Sleeved" d16a1 from golden eagle and they put in a the sleeves and they literally take up the entire upper half of the block. There are smalls passage ways to allow coolant to flow around.

The godzilla sleeves looked way different than your race ZC or the D16a1 block I have been following from sonny's muller.net site.
I'll post a pic when I can get one.

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

The sleeves in my built ZC are stock :P

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

are u planning on upgrading your internals(rods/pistons)?
im planning on doing the same setup with crower rods and 9:2:1 Je pistons, how much boost can i run with this setup?

~henry

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

Nope keeping the stock pistons, stock rods...

How much boost can you run? depends on how well its tuned..

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

thanks for the block pinning info! i want to pin my zc block and maybe get new internals but i don't want to spend all the money on balancing, honing etc i guess i might just pin it and keep stock internals to avoid machine costs.

jeff, what did you do on your built zc.. did you post it and replace the internals? what kind of machine work did you have to get done?

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

Been waiting to check out this write up. Looks good. Now I'm gonna sit back and see how far you go with the boost to ---- this one up ;) ha ha

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

this is enough to prevent the b20 joints from cracking? how many lbs would they begin to crack at and how did you come up with 12lbs as a safe point?

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

Thats a good question, only one way to find out right ;)

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

its men like you that make my leeching a whole lot easier :P

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

Jeff, great write-up as always...had a quick (stupid)question though...do the posts penetrate the cylinder, or just butt up against the outside of it? If the latter, why would it be suggested that you hone the cylinder afterwards?

Sorry for the dumb question...thanks, -Z

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

The studs just barely touch the outside of the cylinder wall, as said only 2 inch pounds, so you can imagne how much they are really touching. T.O.O, and my local machinest said that a rebore job should be done after doing this, Just incase the walls get distorted somehow. I really dont give a ----, ;) It should work just fine, if it breaks it breaks, if it doesnt then well... I'll be happy :D

I was a little bumed when I found out the b20b is going to lower the c/r down to low 9's :(

Jeff

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

you didint know that? figured you woulda, well isnt lower CR the better?

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

Uhm, I thought the b20b and b20z pistons were the same, I didnt know they had a -5.88cc difference.. :-\

I had the head milled down a bit more, so its going to be mid 9's

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

I wonder how this compares to cementing the water jackets. Seems that the cost would be very near the same, and the cementing would be less labour intensive.
Regardless, either method will strenghten the cylinder walls.

-T

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

Except for the fact if you fill the water jacket with cement you will experience heating problems, and an even greater chance of detonation. Even people with block guards have problems with cooling. Not worth it IMO.. Maybe for a race car, but not a daily driver.

Jeff

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

Well, I've held back as long as I can...

This is very cool...I had never considered this (posting) a DIY project. I'm plannning on boosting the DOHC ZC sometime this fall/winter...say I were to post the block, install some eagle rods and a "built for boost" metal head gasket, 450cc injectors, 255lph fuel pump, tyrus intercooler and manage it all with a Zdyne ECU (or similar system), where would you (purely opinion, I know there's de-facto rule) stop with boost? I'm thinking 12psi, but I know the pistons are still a weak point here.

-Z

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

If the block was o-ringed, and you had some real pistons... You probably could max your injectors out before anything.. 15-18psi would be fine as long as tuning was ok. Not to mention, you would probably be breaking ---- like trannys, axles, and smoking up clutchs ;)

That is basically what is done to my built zc.. I am going to start with 15, and just keep going and going and going until I hit 10.9 at the track ;D

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

I head that the piston to valve clearance gets really close.. and now that you have milled the head down even more ... isnt it hitting the pistons? its gotta be ------- close... unless you carved out the pistons a lil

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

No its not close, not with stock cams.. The valve reliefs are plenty big in the b20 pistons.

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

o ok, just what i read on c-speed and a few other places, juss makin sure.-

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

Your post/pinning project looks great.. Seems like a cost effective way to save the motor.. Where can i get the pins from? I know you said from "TheOldOne" but is there a number or website that this can be ordered from? Thanks for the idea.. My motor costed me penny's so if this isn't too expensive then i may aswell give it a shot..

Kyle.

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

http://www.theoldone.com
Really cool site btw, great articles.

$35 is what Jeff paid, says it in the first post of this topic.

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

you should probably start a new topic for this question, you would probably get a better response

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

Nice Work.

I was wondering if anyone here has tried this method for a period of time yet and what kind of abuse it'll hold. Although, I would think the stock pistons will go before the stock sleeves.

Abaz, how is your oil feed line setup? I see the block fitting (from a member) but how did you route the two oil feed lines? I believe the fitting has one space for the oil pressure and one for a feed line.

Would there be a problem with welding the post to the block? My friend can weld aluminum and I figure that would definitely keep the post steady.

Thanks.

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

Just checking to see if you have actually run the motor yet. I am getting ready to put my D16 together and am debating over a block guard. This new methods seems a good cost alternative. I just want ot help keep my engine together for daily driving.

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

Yes, the engine is in and running well :)

T.O.O claimed 25psi on his Z6 block using this method, thats properly tunned with 850cc injectors

My oil feed line setup... No comment, heh, its kinda lame, I do a double split off the back of the block for the head/turbo.

Can you weld the posts? Honestly, I wouldnt.. use the epoxy because it can seal the threads the same time when you put them in, remember your only torqueing this things finger tight.

Jeff

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

3/8 from the top? In some of your pics it looks like you put the holes about 3 inches from the top

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

I took the 101 class with this post, but not sure what ut is meant for. I must no nothingabout cars. My question is, does it help save the engine? OR does it help with performance?


Also Jeff I have been gone from the forum for about 2 months now and I was wondering if there is a post about the ZC you built. (meaning what you did)

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

This just helps the sleeves (aid) if any type of detonation was to occur, this would support the sleeves so they wouldnt crack/distort.

Built ZC is gone.. I sold it yesterday, lol

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

Are there also benifits to doing this to a block witch is not built? Does this make it where the block can hold more PSI? Do you reconmend doing this to any block when mods have been performed?

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

nice. informative. good job.

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

Jeff's b20 block was not built at all, its a bone stock block... it just helps support the cylinder walls under detonation...

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

Do I need to get the same material for the pins or I could use regular alloy pins and epoxy the pins after?

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

Update, dont use JB weld, I have a slight leak on #1 cylinder, GRRR!!!!

Re:Block Posting 101 w/ Jeff Frank
 

Abaz:
I don't know if you're seeing what I'm seeing but I've seen this posted on other forums and people are blasting it. This was back when you first posted this. I'm sure they're just dumb F ***'s that tried to do it them selves and not knowing what to do drilled a hole straight threw their piston walls and blamed it on the idea. Just woundering if you've seen the same thing.