B20 Question
08-17-2006, 11:07 PM
#11
3.0 BAR
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,322
Re: B20 Question
Originally Posted by chris
b20=84mm bore
ls =81 bore
same crank
ls =81 bore
same crank
08-17-2006, 11:14 PM
#12
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 0
Re: B20 Question
Okay, I'm home at a keyboard instead of trying to punch this into a phone, so I'm going to give it a shot.
chris means to/should say:
Read the stickied thread about Honduh sleeves at the top of this forum, seriously. People will tell you that B20B/Z sleeves are thinner than LS, which is not true, not that either are very thick. The amount of metal poured around the liner is thinner if anything. With how Honduh sleeves are ribbed it is not uncommon to find thin spots of 0.060" (!!!)
When I said .25 over above I meant .25mm... that's ---- all of an increase of displacement. For the most part I (and other Americans) use primarily SAE measurements, but since Honduh (and other imports) have pistons oversized in 1/4 mm increments I ASSumed you would understand what I meant.
Unless you want over 450 with reliability, I'd just grab an LS block with okay stock bores and a good crank for $100 or less, and stuff $300 Eagles and 81.25mm or 81.50mm forged pistons picked up from a HT distressed riceboy discount sale. After that, you can make a lot of power off stock blocks (Jeff Evans multiple 600 whp 81.50mm overbore master, perfect example) but it requires an owner who understands the vehicle as much as the tuner understands tuning to make that sort of combo reliable. With how manufacturing tolerances are, there is a slight chance that some blocks have core shift in the sleeves and won't be reliable at any boost level after overhone... but that likelyhood is *much* less than the 2-5% return rate on sleeved blocks due to fucked mains or sleeves sinking.
You're a good guy, and not an ignorant shill who runs his mouth. I didn't mean to throw it in your face that you didn't have a good grasp (yet) of building engines and what to expect from a machinist/machineshop, but I'm that serious; you need to read up a bit before you do or buy anything.
chris means to/should say:
Originally Posted by chris
b20=84mm fucked up design siamese bore
ls =81 bore
same crank
ls =81 bore
same crank
When I said .25 over above I meant .25mm... that's ---- all of an increase of displacement. For the most part I (and other Americans) use primarily SAE measurements, but since Honduh (and other imports) have pistons oversized in 1/4 mm increments I ASSumed you would understand what I meant.
Unless you want over 450 with reliability, I'd just grab an LS block with okay stock bores and a good crank for $100 or less, and stuff $300 Eagles and 81.25mm or 81.50mm forged pistons picked up from a HT distressed riceboy discount sale. After that, you can make a lot of power off stock blocks (Jeff Evans multiple 600 whp 81.50mm overbore master, perfect example) but it requires an owner who understands the vehicle as much as the tuner understands tuning to make that sort of combo reliable. With how manufacturing tolerances are, there is a slight chance that some blocks have core shift in the sleeves and won't be reliable at any boost level after overhone... but that likelyhood is *much* less than the 2-5% return rate on sleeved blocks due to fucked mains or sleeves sinking.
You're a good guy, and not an ignorant shill who runs his mouth. I didn't mean to throw it in your face that you didn't have a good grasp (yet) of building engines and what to expect from a machinist/machineshop, but I'm that serious; you need to read up a bit before you do or buy anything.
08-17-2006, 11:35 PM
#13
3.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,322
Re: B20 Question
Originally Posted by Joseph Davis
Okay, I'm home at a keyboard instead of trying to punch this into a phone, so I'm going to give it a shot.
chris means to/should say:
Read the stickied thread about Honduh sleeves at the top of this forum, seriously. People will tell you that B20B/Z sleeves are thinner than LS, which is not true, not that either are very thick. The amount of metal poured around the liner is thinner if anything. With how Honduh sleeves are ribbed it is not uncommon to find thin spots of 0.060" (!!!)
When I said .25 over above I meant .25mm... that's ---- all of an increase of displacement. For the most part I (and other Americans) use primarily SAE measurements, but since Honduh (and other imports) have pistons oversized in 1/4 mm increments I ASSumed you would understand what I meant.
Unless you want over 450 with reliability, I'd just grab an LS block with okay stock bores and a good crank for $100 or less, and stuff $300 Eagles and 81.25mm or 81.50mm forged pistons picked up from a HT distressed riceboy discount sale. After that, you can make a lot of power off stock blocks (Jeff Evans multiple 600 whp 81.50mm overbore master, perfect example) but it requires an owner who understands the vehicle as much as the tuner understands tuning to make that sort of combo reliable. With how manufacturing tolerances are, there is a slight chance that some blocks have core shift in the sleeves and won't be reliable at any boost level after overhone... but that likelyhood is *much* less than the 2-5% return rate on sleeved blocks due to fucked mains or sleeves sinking.
You're a good guy, and not an ignorant shill who runs his mouth. I didn't mean to throw it in your face that you didn't have a good grasp (yet) of building engines and what to expect from a machinist/machineshop, but I'm that serious; you need to read up a bit before you do or buy anything.
chris means to/should say:
Read the stickied thread about Honduh sleeves at the top of this forum, seriously. People will tell you that B20B/Z sleeves are thinner than LS, which is not true, not that either are very thick. The amount of metal poured around the liner is thinner if anything. With how Honduh sleeves are ribbed it is not uncommon to find thin spots of 0.060" (!!!)
When I said .25 over above I meant .25mm... that's ---- all of an increase of displacement. For the most part I (and other Americans) use primarily SAE measurements, but since Honduh (and other imports) have pistons oversized in 1/4 mm increments I ASSumed you would understand what I meant.
Unless you want over 450 with reliability, I'd just grab an LS block with okay stock bores and a good crank for $100 or less, and stuff $300 Eagles and 81.25mm or 81.50mm forged pistons picked up from a HT distressed riceboy discount sale. After that, you can make a lot of power off stock blocks (Jeff Evans multiple 600 whp 81.50mm overbore master, perfect example) but it requires an owner who understands the vehicle as much as the tuner understands tuning to make that sort of combo reliable. With how manufacturing tolerances are, there is a slight chance that some blocks have core shift in the sleeves and won't be reliable at any boost level after overhone... but that likelyhood is *much* less than the 2-5% return rate on sleeved blocks due to fucked mains or sleeves sinking.
You're a good guy, and not an ignorant shill who runs his mouth. I didn't mean to throw it in your face that you didn't have a good grasp (yet) of building engines and what to expect from a machinist/machineshop, but I'm that serious; you need to read up a bit before you do or buy anything.
And thanks for the info, I'll definately read over that thread again because it seems like I missed a bit and it's been a couple months since I read it. My roommate (doug684) and I were just curious because it seems like getting two b20b blocks for $1300 shipped, then getting them sleeved, would come out as a pretty good value when comparing to buying an ls swap...for a little more cash you have a much stronger block with more displacement.
But yeah will definately read more because I have a lot to learn.
Ok...well I just read over it again... Basically says that Honda's cast iron liner in the sleeves has splines to reduce the gap between it and the aluminum and have a better seal. I'm guessing that because of this design it makes sleeving a pain in the ***??
I understand what you're saying about the ls block ... does seem a lot cheaper and easier...
08-18-2006, 12:32 AM
#14
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 0
Re: B20 Question
If you are sleeving blocks, it doesn't matter which you get (except B16 with the short deck height you lpose displacement on stroke) as they can all be bored out to whatever. 84mm is the largest I'd go, and that leaves you room to overbore a little if things get scratched up. Once it hits 85mm, I'd sell to a NA guy because you start losing surface area for headgasket to find purchase against.
08-18-2006, 01:02 AM
#16
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 0
Re: B20 Question
Originally Posted by Joseph Davis
If you are sleeving blocks, it doesn't matter which you get (except B16 with the short deck height you lpose displacement on stroke) as they can all be bored out to whatever. 84mm is the largest I'd go, and that leaves you room to overbore a little if things get scratched up. Once it hits 85mm, I'd sell to a NA guy because you start losing surface area for headgasket to find purchase against.
If you all you want is a 300 whp car the ls is your choice and follow what jd says
The b20 blocks at one time were so valueable 1000+ or a longblock
on the westcoast prices are in the 450+ range now for good reason
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