all motor B7
12-01-2005, 02:10 PM
#21
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 0
Re: all motor B7
I put 26.5 bottles down her, hurt it twice..........
First was on 75 shot tuned to ZEX specs, stock injectors cannot flow enough, toasted #3 piston.
Dropped in used Y8's, no boring, NOTHING! Went to Ford redtops, blew thru the clutch, but had fuel!
Upgraded clutch, 100 shot, too light of flywheel and 22" slicks = BOG at launch
Then I forgot to pull the fuel mpg chip which had 6 extras degree of timing.....think I bent #1 rod.......never pulled the motor apart.......
First was on 75 shot tuned to ZEX specs, stock injectors cannot flow enough, toasted #3 piston.
Dropped in used Y8's, no boring, NOTHING! Went to Ford redtops, blew thru the clutch, but had fuel!
Upgraded clutch, 100 shot, too light of flywheel and 22" slicks = BOG at launch
Then I forgot to pull the fuel mpg chip which had 6 extras degree of timing.....think I bent #1 rod.......never pulled the motor apart.......
12-01-2005, 02:48 PM
#22
3.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,995
Re: all motor B7
Originally Posted by Mista Bone
I put 26.5 bottles down her, hurt it twice..........
First was on 75 shot tuned to ZEX specs, stock injectors cannot flow enough, toasted #3 piston.
Dropped in used Y8's, no boring, NOTHING! Went to Ford redtops, blew thru the clutch, but had fuel!
Upgraded clutch, 100 shot, too light of flywheel and 22" slicks = BOG at launch
Then I forgot to pull the fuel mpg chip which had 6 extras degree of timing.....think I bent #1 rod.......never pulled the motor apart.......
First was on 75 shot tuned to ZEX specs, stock injectors cannot flow enough, toasted #3 piston.
Dropped in used Y8's, no boring, NOTHING! Went to Ford redtops, blew thru the clutch, but had fuel!
Upgraded clutch, 100 shot, too light of flywheel and 22" slicks = BOG at launch
Then I forgot to pull the fuel mpg chip which had 6 extras degree of timing.....think I bent #1 rod.......never pulled the motor apart.......
12-01-2005, 06:04 PM
#23
3.0 BAR
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: NE-PA
Posts: 4,666
Re: all motor B7
I looked into those Bisimoto headers a while back. Those things are sex and def. make power, only downfall is the nice price tag...not exactly a HMT'ers general use type of header. I think the cheapest one I saw on their site a while ago was around the $600+ price tag. You also have to realize that Bisi himself has a degree in chemical engineering, and has countless hours in testing and tuning on his d15 that he used to run. Even his cam, pistons, and head he pretty much designed himself to try and reach the max potential on that motor. Also no ITB's on his motor either...dual side-draft webers, which he said gave the most awesome fuel atomization over the 9k rpm mark. Think about it...9000 rpm and higher...that's gonna take some serious dough to take a d15 to rev up that high. 
12-01-2005, 07:12 PM
#24
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 0
Re: all motor B7
Originally Posted by TurbodEG
Originally Posted by Mista Bone
I put 26.5 bottles down her, hurt it twice..........
First was on 75 shot tuned to ZEX specs, stock injectors cannot flow enough, toasted #3 piston.
Dropped in used Y8's, no boring, NOTHING! Went to Ford redtops, blew thru the clutch, but had fuel!
Upgraded clutch, 100 shot, too light of flywheel and 22" slicks = BOG at launch
Then I forgot to pull the fuel mpg chip which had 6 extras degree of timing.....think I bent #1 rod.......never pulled the motor apart.......
First was on 75 shot tuned to ZEX specs, stock injectors cannot flow enough, toasted #3 piston.
Dropped in used Y8's, no boring, NOTHING! Went to Ford redtops, blew thru the clutch, but had fuel!
Upgraded clutch, 100 shot, too light of flywheel and 22" slicks = BOG at launch
Then I forgot to pull the fuel mpg chip which had 6 extras degree of timing.....think I bent #1 rod.......never pulled the motor apart.......
12-04-2005, 02:03 AM
#29
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 0
Re: all motor B7
Chris, there's a recent 200 whp NA D16 somewhere on HT. rhd was telling me about it... it lodged somewhere in my mind, but I mostly ignore what he says because he never shuts up, and because I randomly and spontaneously ignore people at the drop of a hat like a good semi autistic idiot-savant.
I'd veer away from the D15 bottom end. D16 costs $2.47 more, more displacement, etc. Flat out just a better engine.
Builthatch hit, what?, 154 whp on a DIY ported Y8? He -----D seven or eight different camshafts, and is pretty particular about which are worth a ---- and which are not.
I think 160+ whp can be done "affordably," as long as you realize NA is a rich man's game. As others have pointed out: you HAVE to have the $600+ header. You HAVE to have the $$$ valvetrain. That's more than a T3 based turbo kit for a D should cost - I'm at $1400 for car, built engine, and kit with the 88 STD.
Again, 160+ whp can be done affordably, but you have to pay attention to what other people are and aren't doing... and to the reasons why. Here's what I'd suggest, and some of my reasoning, with an eye toward bang for the buck:
1) Read asshat @ Endyn's writeup on how to build a D-series bottom end. Read it twice. Pay attention to the oilling modifications. A DIY Accusump is a good idea, for peak oil pump loading situations, to keep pressures up when the pump falters.
2) LS rods in a D16. Sure, some people rev stock D16 rods to 8500 daily and it works fine, but you can fit the larger LS rod bearing when you use the LS rod. D-series bottom ends suck, partially due to oilling problems. A bigger rod bearing allows what pressure you have to go further in supporting the rod without nasty bearing-crank conflict. You now have a bigger safety margin with high rpms, and nitrous doesn't seem so scary.
3) LS rods allow you to run GX pistons. 5.5 cc (thank you, Bone) compression height compared to ZC's 7.2 cc. Deck block and mill head until you arrive at the CR of your choice. GX pistons have the correct valve flycut spacing for Z6/Y7/Y8 heads.
4) Pour block with epoxy, helps shore up sleeves at high rpm. NA cars also get much higher combustion pressure spikes than boosted cars do.
5) The head work has got to be good. A good valve job really helps flow. Fresh valve guides to replace those old, sloppy ones with a million miles on them. Builthatch obviously got some really good results from a DIY job, on a Y8 head which isn't supposed to flow as well as Z6 even after porting.
Now, I'm not sold on ITBs. The bike units are going to be a bit on the small size - 954RR units are engineered close to their maximum in their ~100 whp application. They are going to be restrictive in the upper rpms on a stock D16Z6, much less a built one. You need bigger, and the bigger bike units are going to be spaced wider and/or cost some jack like the Hayabusa units. Jenvey/TWM units are even more expensive. The flip side of the argument is... traditional single plane manifolds are great for making power, but it's pretty obvious that there hasn't been 1/10th the R&D into D-series as there has been into B-series, so *which* manifold to run and why gets a little wierd. Switching from A6/B7 manifold to Z6/Y8 is a noticeable change, but still not set up for "big" NA power. Port the hell out of a Z6/Y8? JG/Edelbrock/Victor-X unit, and plan to rev to the moon since they are for 7000+ rpms? Custom unit?
Just a little 3 am speculation, nothing carved in stone.
I'd veer away from the D15 bottom end. D16 costs $2.47 more, more displacement, etc. Flat out just a better engine.
Builthatch hit, what?, 154 whp on a DIY ported Y8? He -----D seven or eight different camshafts, and is pretty particular about which are worth a ---- and which are not.
I think 160+ whp can be done "affordably," as long as you realize NA is a rich man's game. As others have pointed out: you HAVE to have the $600+ header. You HAVE to have the $$$ valvetrain. That's more than a T3 based turbo kit for a D should cost - I'm at $1400 for car, built engine, and kit with the 88 STD.
Again, 160+ whp can be done affordably, but you have to pay attention to what other people are and aren't doing... and to the reasons why. Here's what I'd suggest, and some of my reasoning, with an eye toward bang for the buck:
1) Read asshat @ Endyn's writeup on how to build a D-series bottom end. Read it twice. Pay attention to the oilling modifications. A DIY Accusump is a good idea, for peak oil pump loading situations, to keep pressures up when the pump falters.
2) LS rods in a D16. Sure, some people rev stock D16 rods to 8500 daily and it works fine, but you can fit the larger LS rod bearing when you use the LS rod. D-series bottom ends suck, partially due to oilling problems. A bigger rod bearing allows what pressure you have to go further in supporting the rod without nasty bearing-crank conflict. You now have a bigger safety margin with high rpms, and nitrous doesn't seem so scary.
3) LS rods allow you to run GX pistons. 5.5 cc (thank you, Bone) compression height compared to ZC's 7.2 cc. Deck block and mill head until you arrive at the CR of your choice. GX pistons have the correct valve flycut spacing for Z6/Y7/Y8 heads.
4) Pour block with epoxy, helps shore up sleeves at high rpm. NA cars also get much higher combustion pressure spikes than boosted cars do.
5) The head work has got to be good. A good valve job really helps flow. Fresh valve guides to replace those old, sloppy ones with a million miles on them. Builthatch obviously got some really good results from a DIY job, on a Y8 head which isn't supposed to flow as well as Z6 even after porting.
Now, I'm not sold on ITBs. The bike units are going to be a bit on the small size - 954RR units are engineered close to their maximum in their ~100 whp application. They are going to be restrictive in the upper rpms on a stock D16Z6, much less a built one. You need bigger, and the bigger bike units are going to be spaced wider and/or cost some jack like the Hayabusa units. Jenvey/TWM units are even more expensive. The flip side of the argument is... traditional single plane manifolds are great for making power, but it's pretty obvious that there hasn't been 1/10th the R&D into D-series as there has been into B-series, so *which* manifold to run and why gets a little wierd. Switching from A6/B7 manifold to Z6/Y8 is a noticeable change, but still not set up for "big" NA power. Port the hell out of a Z6/Y8? JG/Edelbrock/Victor-X unit, and plan to rev to the moon since they are for 7000+ rpms? Custom unit?
Just a little 3 am speculation, nothing carved in stone.
12-04-2005, 02:16 AM
#30
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 0
Re: all motor B7
Gude head, Crane cam, Isky valvesprings, not very expensive..........Holley Airmass header, nothing fancy.......
CBR 954 ITB's, choked the motor at 7000, but good torque (SCCA Autox car) as you can see in the dyno graph above.
The $$$$ parts were the Crower Rods and whatever pistons he ran for 12:1 compression.
But we have ways around that now......
Car owner has access to the LAST Honda D series TWM intake and 45mm carbs. Along with the freshed bottom end (137mm stroke this time) and a properly ported head, looking for 175whp giving up nothing in the torque, maybe gaining 5-7 whp.
Why stay 1.5L in his class, the weight break outweighs the larger motor.
CBR 954 ITB's, choked the motor at 7000, but good torque (SCCA Autox car) as you can see in the dyno graph above.
The $$$$ parts were the Crower Rods and whatever pistons he ran for 12:1 compression.
But we have ways around that now......
Car owner has access to the LAST Honda D series TWM intake and 45mm carbs. Along with the freshed bottom end (137mm stroke this time) and a properly ported head, looking for 175whp giving up nothing in the torque, maybe gaining 5-7 whp.
Why stay 1.5L in his class, the weight break outweighs the larger motor.
