Retirement/ Stock Market
08-06-2008, 12:15 PM
#41
3.0 BAR
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,282
Re: Retirement/ Stock Market
Money can be made off losing money. It's called selling short. All that needs to be done is finding a broker who will lend one of his clients bonds/shares/whatever with their permission. Once a broker is secured, the fluctuations in the market are all potentials to profit. Both the ups and the downs. Gold, as an initial investment, lacks a large margin of human error that can be played upon. It's far less risky, but you can't really make the same kind of money off of gold as you could with an equity that has larger fluctuations in it's market price. Even if you're expecting a (your) currency to crash and you wanted to invest in gold, that's only part of the equation.
Example:
From research and analysis it can be deduced that a currency is extremely overvalued. It's found that within the next few months, or couple years, the currency is going to rapidly inflate. Either caused by a bank calling in loans, over issue of currency or just a general lack of trust in that currency as a store of value due to it's overabundance becoming public.
The next step is to take advantage of the situation. In this example, gold will be used, since some of you find it an excellent store of value. To do this, you first need to leverage your capital in the undesired currency. Go borrow as much of it as you can with the longest term loan possible, or whatever you feel comfortable with risking. Take that money and immediately dump it into gold. Once the store of value has been changed to gold, which will not change with the whims of the market, you make interest payments on your loan and wait for the currencies real value to fall. Once it falls enough to tickle your fancy, and the level of the price of gold has risen in the face of inflation, you sell all of your gold in the currency that you had found to be overvalued. You take the money, pay back your lender and pocket the rest. Welcome to the concept of a short sale. It's a great way to pretend you're George Soros in one lesson or less.
Example:
From research and analysis it can be deduced that a currency is extremely overvalued. It's found that within the next few months, or couple years, the currency is going to rapidly inflate. Either caused by a bank calling in loans, over issue of currency or just a general lack of trust in that currency as a store of value due to it's overabundance becoming public.
The next step is to take advantage of the situation. In this example, gold will be used, since some of you find it an excellent store of value. To do this, you first need to leverage your capital in the undesired currency. Go borrow as much of it as you can with the longest term loan possible, or whatever you feel comfortable with risking. Take that money and immediately dump it into gold. Once the store of value has been changed to gold, which will not change with the whims of the market, you make interest payments on your loan and wait for the currencies real value to fall. Once it falls enough to tickle your fancy, and the level of the price of gold has risen in the face of inflation, you sell all of your gold in the currency that you had found to be overvalued. You take the money, pay back your lender and pocket the rest. Welcome to the concept of a short sale. It's a great way to pretend you're George Soros in one lesson or less.
08-06-2008, 12:25 PM
#43
3.0 BAR
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,450
Re: Retirement/ Stock Market
Copy and Paste brokers charge a fee, or no? 
Selling short, look at the stock market millionaires of the eighties, taking worthless money and dumping it into a metal bar you can put in your closet is not. It's "old wives investing". The people who MAKE MONEY off gold don't have gold bars sitting under their beds, they invest in the marketable aspects of it, like the futures, options, all that redonkulus crap that you can read wiki's on all day long and not even come within a day of comprehending how they stack they loot so fly.
I know hmt is all about buying a big gun, grabbing a gold bar, stealing some internet and waiting for the time to overthrow the government, but listening to conservative talk radio to learn about investment... and thinking stacking gold bars in your house is somehow going to make you fail less hard is a tad silly.
All gold is good for is preserving value, not making money, when your currency (our) goes to ----.
Invest in gold mining, jewelry, gold mutual funds if you are a pansy *** because all of that is a solid way to actually invest in gold w/o being an idiot.
Selling short, look at the stock market millionaires of the eighties, taking worthless money and dumping it into a metal bar you can put in your closet is not. It's "old wives investing". The people who MAKE MONEY off gold don't have gold bars sitting under their beds, they invest in the marketable aspects of it, like the futures, options, all that redonkulus crap that you can read wiki's on all day long and not even come within a day of comprehending how they stack they loot so fly.
I know hmt is all about buying a big gun, grabbing a gold bar, stealing some internet and waiting for the time to overthrow the government, but listening to conservative talk radio to learn about investment... and thinking stacking gold bars in your house is somehow going to make you fail less hard is a tad silly.
All gold is good for is preserving value, not making money, when your currency (our) goes to ----.
Invest in gold mining, jewelry, gold mutual funds if you are a pansy *** because all of that is a solid way to actually invest in gold w/o being an idiot.
08-06-2008, 12:36 PM
#44
3.0 BAR
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,282
Re: Retirement/ Stock Market
Obviously brokers charge a fee. Just like banks charge interest, but that shouldn't matter if you've covered all of your bases.
None of what I wrote has ---- to do with Wikipedia, son. Go ahead and try to make an attempt to search the entire internet for snippets of my reply. You'll find nothing. Not to unliken to the ladies who search your jeans for a workable phallis, but alas, return empty handed.
The rest of what you said, I agree with.
Never mind about the talk radio comment. I had read what you wrote incorrectly due to lack of articulation by yourself.
None of what I wrote has ---- to do with Wikipedia, son. Go ahead and try to make an attempt to search the entire internet for snippets of my reply. You'll find nothing. Not to unliken to the ladies who search your jeans for a workable phallis, but alas, return empty handed.
The rest of what you said, I agree with.
Never mind about the talk radio comment. I had read what you wrote incorrectly due to lack of articulation by yourself.
08-06-2008, 03:58 PM
#45
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 243
Re: Retirement/ Stock Market
look up warren buffet or peter lynch if you want some good advice on investing, both of those guys were stock market genius. I think peter made a 29% return compounded (not average) return over the course of 14 years when he ran the magellan fund, buffet's name speaks for it's self. Also look up clark howard on the internet, he is a talk radio guy that talks about saving money and investments/retirement, you can stream his show for free. Also google Damodaran, he is a finance professor at NYU that has all his lectures up for free, he also has ------sheets you can use to value securities. You may want to double check the FDIC covering your retirement account, normally they don't cover investments as far as I know. Finally what someone said about not investing in your company stock, that is dead on i.e. Enron, Global Crossing, WinnDixie the list goes on. Not to say wachovia will go under, but its just common sense that you could be wiped out if they do, rather then just loosing your job.
08-06-2008, 11:13 PM
#47
0.5 BAR
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 93
Re: Retirement/ Stock Market
My .02:
All the eggs in one basket is dangerous. I don't feel comfortable holding any one single stock for longer then a few days, I make my 1-2% and get out. Too many examples of glorified performers crashing and burning this year that were considered very solid investments not even 12 months ago. There are so many people who talk the talk, but dont walk the walk in this game... I would take most advise with a grain of salt. Even the most "experienced" traders are posting paltry gains and many even a loss. If you look over on the honda-tech investment board, those guys preach all day about how to trade, set your stops, let your money run, blah blah blah. Ask them what they've made and most are negative.
Currently my YTD annualized gain is 47%, and I made that through small incremental gains about every other day. No stops, no charting, no bull ----. And definitely, no options.
All the eggs in one basket is dangerous. I don't feel comfortable holding any one single stock for longer then a few days, I make my 1-2% and get out. Too many examples of glorified performers crashing and burning this year that were considered very solid investments not even 12 months ago. There are so many people who talk the talk, but dont walk the walk in this game... I would take most advise with a grain of salt. Even the most "experienced" traders are posting paltry gains and many even a loss. If you look over on the honda-tech investment board, those guys preach all day about how to trade, set your stops, let your money run, blah blah blah. Ask them what they've made and most are negative.
Currently my YTD annualized gain is 47%, and I made that through small incremental gains about every other day. No stops, no charting, no bull ----. And definitely, no options.
08-07-2008, 11:12 PM
#48
1.5 BAR
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Plant city,fl
Posts: 1,134
Re: Retirement/ Stock Market
---- gold.You cant eat it and if you give me a shiny rock i wont work for you either.The real goods are guns and survival equipment.If we ever go to WW3 we'll see how far that bar of rock will get you. 
