THE REAL NE 450+ WHP BUILD UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!***Pics***
03-10-2006, 12:30 PM
#71
0.5 BAR
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 90
Re: THE REAL NE 450+ WHP BUILD UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!***Pics***
Originally Posted by accordepicenter
mike saunders where are you located? I knew a mike saunders once... His sister was HOTT
I'm in Boston...I'm the token non-Honda head here (although I am rockin' the VTEC in the 2002 Odyssey, yo!!)
03-10-2006, 04:31 PM
#73
1.5 BAR
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,194
Re: THE REAL NE 450+ WHP BUILD UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!***Pics***
Originally Posted by hebijake
I went with 10:1 so that it wouldn't be laggy on the street. I'm not planning to run 20+psi on the street, especially since the tires would vaporize on street tires. I do plan on running about 15psi daily on the street, and again I went with 10:1 because the efficiency of it with boost just means I can run 15psi on the street and smoke alot of people instead of having to turn it up to 18psi to do the same thing. I view it all as efficiency... Your right Jay, this summer is gonna rock!
Your right Jay, this summer is gonna rock!
You know, a 10:1 engine is only more efficient than an 8:1 engine when both can run optimum spark timing. Your efficiency is all lost out your exhaust at 15psi as your spark timing will be close to 5° BTDC. Engines only run efficiently when the peak pressure happens about 10° ATDC, you cannot acheive that with 10:1 compression on pump gas.
Plus the difference in spoolup times is very minor, as the difference in efficiency between a 10:1 engine and an 8:1 engine is about 6% given optimal conditions. High compression only does any good if you have the fuel and parts to match it.
The key is to pick the right compression ratio for the job and 10:1 is too high here.
Honda ran 9.4:1 on their old twin turbo V6 Formula 1 engine, running 2.5 bar boost on 84% toluene, and that engine revved to 14000rpm so it needed high compression. That engine also only had to last one race and then it was scrapped.
I think your engine is going to be very fast for all of 5 seconds and then it's going to melt, but please prove me wrong.
03-10-2006, 06:31 PM
#76
1.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 357
Re: THE REAL NE 450+ WHP BUILD UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!***Pics***
Originally Posted by jecu
I guess he'll just have to run meth injection....problem solved
03-10-2006, 06:34 PM
#77
1.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 357
Re: THE REAL NE 450+ WHP BUILD UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!***Pics***
Originally Posted by baldur
15psi is only marginally better than 20psi on 10:1. You will find out, please try doing a top speed run and tell us what happens
You know, a 10:1 engine is only more efficient than an 8:1 engine when both can run optimum spark timing. Your efficiency is all lost out your exhaust at 15psi as your spark timing will be close to 5° BTDC. Engines only run efficiently when the peak pressure happens about 10° ATDC, you cannot acheive that with 10:1 compression on pump gas.
Plus the difference in spoolup times is very minor, as the difference in efficiency between a 10:1 engine and an 8:1 engine is about 6% given optimal conditions. High compression only does any good if you have the fuel and parts to match it.
The key is to pick the right compression ratio for the job and 10:1 is too high here.
Honda ran 9.4:1 on their old twin turbo V6 Formula 1 engine, running 2.5 bar boost on 84% toluene, and that engine revved to 14000rpm so it needed high compression. That engine also only had to last one race and then it was scrapped.
I think your engine is going to be very fast for all of 5 seconds and then it's going to melt, but please prove me wrong.
You know, a 10:1 engine is only more efficient than an 8:1 engine when both can run optimum spark timing. Your efficiency is all lost out your exhaust at 15psi as your spark timing will be close to 5° BTDC. Engines only run efficiently when the peak pressure happens about 10° ATDC, you cannot acheive that with 10:1 compression on pump gas.
Plus the difference in spoolup times is very minor, as the difference in efficiency between a 10:1 engine and an 8:1 engine is about 6% given optimal conditions. High compression only does any good if you have the fuel and parts to match it.
The key is to pick the right compression ratio for the job and 10:1 is too high here.
Honda ran 9.4:1 on their old twin turbo V6 Formula 1 engine, running 2.5 bar boost on 84% toluene, and that engine revved to 14000rpm so it needed high compression. That engine also only had to last one race and then it was scrapped.
I think your engine is going to be very fast for all of 5 seconds and then it's going to melt, but please prove me wrong.
03-10-2006, 07:17 PM
#78
1.5 BAR
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,194
Re: THE REAL NE 450+ WHP BUILD UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!***Pics***
Yes, that's what you think. A properly done setup won't melt when you do a top speed run.
As for my info, it doesn't come off the interweb. It's a mixture of experience and engineering.
Please do go and make this setup last for 20k miles hitting 15psi every day of it. Then you are allowed to defend your engineering
As for my info, it doesn't come off the interweb. It's a mixture of experience and engineering.
Please do go and make this setup last for 20k miles hitting 15psi every day of it. Then you are allowed to defend your engineering
03-10-2006, 07:33 PM
#79
1.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 357
Re: THE REAL NE 450+ WHP BUILD UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!***Pics***
to be honest, I hope to make this motor last 50,000 miles. With racing the abuse it takes it's inevitable that something will break, but I don't feel like doing another build up any time soon, but I am confident in our knowledge and skills at building motor in the past without any problems so I'm looking foreward to getting this thing done and ripping down the road
03-10-2006, 07:51 PM
#80
1.5 BAR
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,194
Re: THE REAL NE 450+ WHP BUILD UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!***Pics***
Oh and to clarify, I'm just challenging your wits. You're certain that it's a great setup but you're still afraid to actually give it some sustained full throttle (25 seconds or more) because you are afraid it will melt. News flash, good setups don't melt if you drive them a little hard.
In fact, it is a standard procedure when mapping an engine in a car to take it to full throttle in a high gear, preferrably uphill. The key is to give it sustained load and as much load as possible, monitoring the engine with a stethoscope and making sure it doesn't knock. Chassis dynos are useless for mapping because they just don't give enough load. This is why engine dynos are the daddy when it comes to mapping, they give you full control and let you hold the engine at any load site for as long as you want.
Most engines mapped to the knock limit on a chassis dyno won't survive a top speed run.
Compression ratios aren't just numbers, there are reasons to why the best engineers in the world don't just run 10:1 compression ratios on their turbo cars, even with water injection and inlet restrictors (with a restrictor you run the compression ratio as high as you can to try and squeeze a tiny bit extra out of the engine)
In fact, it is a standard procedure when mapping an engine in a car to take it to full throttle in a high gear, preferrably uphill. The key is to give it sustained load and as much load as possible, monitoring the engine with a stethoscope and making sure it doesn't knock. Chassis dynos are useless for mapping because they just don't give enough load. This is why engine dynos are the daddy when it comes to mapping, they give you full control and let you hold the engine at any load site for as long as you want.
Most engines mapped to the knock limit on a chassis dyno won't survive a top speed run.
Compression ratios aren't just numbers, there are reasons to why the best engineers in the world don't just run 10:1 compression ratios on their turbo cars, even with water injection and inlet restrictors (with a restrictor you run the compression ratio as high as you can to try and squeeze a tiny bit extra out of the engine)
