MP5T
05-19-2009, 01:52 PM
#62
0.5 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 152
There are actually 3..
One goes only to an AEM UGEO.
The other two are connected to the EMS.
The EMS can detect if they are approximately similar and take the average for a better reading.
If they are not the same, it will assume that one or both are malfunctioning and trigger a warning..
This EMS actively fine tunes the map based off of the WBO2 constantly.
One goes only to an AEM UGEO.
The other two are connected to the EMS.
The EMS can detect if they are approximately similar and take the average for a better reading.
If they are not the same, it will assume that one or both are malfunctioning and trigger a warning..
This EMS actively fine tunes the map based off of the WBO2 constantly.
05-20-2009, 01:28 PM
#63
0.5 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 152
Some More Info..
This would explain why some folks have had starting problems with the E6X, and a slightly weak battery.
Yes, the faster the car turns over on the starter, the better the signal is.
The Reluctor generates a sine wave of AC current from 0.2Vac to as much as 100Vac.
As the metal blade on the 36-1 comes close, there is a Vac Peak up, and as the blade leaves, it generates an equal dip in Vac, creating on AC Current cycle or pulse. 35 full pulses per crank rotation, 70 Full pulses per full Event Cycle of 4 cylinders firing.
The faster, the better and more consistent.
Also, any deformity in the 36-1 gear will throw a spanner into the mix. If one tooth has been bent, left or right, it will create a pulse of lesser strength, it will be seen by the ECU as the missing tooth.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Ok, So I want to document something that I am working on right now..
I sent this on the Haltech Forum.
And Made some setting changes... I still believe that the Home and Trigger are working, but I can't explain the Spike in RPM.
Today I was able to get this.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Most Recent Update.
Originally Posted by LinuxRacr
Originally Posted by BRIAN MP5T
The Cam gear modification work, a Reluctor sensor has a unique property, the signal becomes stronger as speed is increased. So if this low speed test has no trouble, then it will only get better when the car is actually running.
The Reluctor generates a sine wave of AC current from 0.2Vac to as much as 100Vac.
As the metal blade on the 36-1 comes close, there is a Vac Peak up, and as the blade leaves, it generates an equal dip in Vac, creating on AC Current cycle or pulse. 35 full pulses per crank rotation, 70 Full pulses per full Event Cycle of 4 cylinders firing.
The faster, the better and more consistent.
Also, any deformity in the 36-1 gear will throw a spanner into the mix. If one tooth has been bent, left or right, it will create a pulse of lesser strength, it will be seen by the ECU as the missing tooth.
-=-=-=-=-=-
Ok, So I want to document something that I am working on right now..
I sent this on the Haltech Forum.
Originally Posted by BRIAN MP5T
Alright Tech Staff, I have another question.
In preparation to start the engine for the first time, I wanted to verify that the Trigger and Home both work and give consistent readings.
The numbers worked out every time so I was happy.
I then noticed that the tachometer on the IQ3 goes BANANAS.
I then took a screen capture of the trace.
The White Line is the Tachometer
The Green is the Fuel Pressure
Red is just the TPS
Some of the other like the EGT are not connected yet so please disregard the 600 Deg EGT.
The WBO2 are also not connected.
I have read that a Reluctor becomes a better stronger signal the faster it works, so Cranking the engine should be the worst case scenario. Sub 400 Rpm (Please Correct me if I have bad information)
I did some math and on a 36-1 +1 Home the number of Triggers Vs the Number of Homes looks good every time. Obviously, if the ECU is dropping teeth on the 36-1 tooth wheel, it would probably not understand...
My Main concern is, Will this RPM spike create a problem, is is Normal, is it a sign of something that is very wrong.
I have played with the filter, 0 1 2 3. it changes it a bit, but there are still spikes in the Tachometer Signal.
My next plan is to confirm that the wire is shielded all the way to the sensor.
Any information or ideas would be helpful.
In preparation to start the engine for the first time, I wanted to verify that the Trigger and Home both work and give consistent readings.
The numbers worked out every time so I was happy.
I then noticed that the tachometer on the IQ3 goes BANANAS.
I then took a screen capture of the trace.
The White Line is the Tachometer
The Green is the Fuel Pressure
Red is just the TPS
Some of the other like the EGT are not connected yet so please disregard the 600 Deg EGT.
The WBO2 are also not connected.
I have read that a Reluctor becomes a better stronger signal the faster it works, so Cranking the engine should be the worst case scenario. Sub 400 Rpm (Please Correct me if I have bad information)
I did some math and on a 36-1 +1 Home the number of Triggers Vs the Number of Homes looks good every time. Obviously, if the ECU is dropping teeth on the 36-1 tooth wheel, it would probably not understand...
My Main concern is, Will this RPM spike create a problem, is is Normal, is it a sign of something that is very wrong.
I have played with the filter, 0 1 2 3. it changes it a bit, but there are still spikes in the Tachometer Signal.
My next plan is to confirm that the wire is shielded all the way to the sensor.
Any information or ideas would be helpful.
And Made some setting changes... I still believe that the Home and Trigger are working, but I can't explain the Spike in RPM.
Today I was able to get this.
Originally Posted by BRIAN MP5T
Teeth are not bent, Made sure the shielding was 100%
I added the Miss Counter and The Trigger between Home Counter.
The first try I got the same thing, I inverted to Falling and not rising (The opposite of how I have wired it, I checked three times) and got this which is exactly what I wanted to see.
(Note: The Oil Pressure is finally rising as well which is nice to see..)
I tried again after 1 min, and got some spikes with the same settings. Not many and they were after some cranking that would have probably started the car.
(Is it possible that a fresh and fully charged battery is just spinning the car faster and making a better signal the first time)
It's still much better and I have not gotten better results with the Filters.
Is there anything else I could try?
Thanks in advance. Once I nail this down, I'm sure the Haltech will be exactly what I need.
I added the Miss Counter and The Trigger between Home Counter.
The first try I got the same thing, I inverted to Falling and not rising (The opposite of how I have wired it, I checked three times) and got this which is exactly what I wanted to see.
(Note: The Oil Pressure is finally rising as well which is nice to see..)
I tried again after 1 min, and got some spikes with the same settings. Not many and they were after some cranking that would have probably started the car.
(Is it possible that a fresh and fully charged battery is just spinning the car faster and making a better signal the first time)
It's still much better and I have not gotten better results with the Filters.
Is there anything else I could try?
Thanks in advance. Once I nail this down, I'm sure the Haltech will be exactly what I need.
Most Recent Update.
Originally Posted by BRIAN MP5T
So, I am still at it, I think it's fixed.
I went for the overkill solution on the wiring shielding where the Haltech wire meets the stock wire.
The Haltech wire has a cable wire core and foil around.
The Stock Mazda wire has a series of exposed wires that wrap around the two wires inside like a Co-Ax cable.
With some time I was able to totally isolate the center two connections in their own heatshrink.
Then as ghetto as it sounds, took foil and neatly wrapped the unshielded connection from ECU wire to Sensor making sure that both ends touched the original shielding.
Then with a 10" Piece of double walled heatshrink, I covered the entire thing. When heated the glue inside seals both ends.
The line is the RPM and honestly, I'm no tech, but I expect a starter cranking a motor through compression to bounce like that.. Correct me if I don't make sense..
Can you at Haltech let me know if the Trigger and Home numbers make sense for a 36-1 +Home?
I went for the overkill solution on the wiring shielding where the Haltech wire meets the stock wire.
The Haltech wire has a cable wire core and foil around.
The Stock Mazda wire has a series of exposed wires that wrap around the two wires inside like a Co-Ax cable.
With some time I was able to totally isolate the center two connections in their own heatshrink.
Then as ghetto as it sounds, took foil and neatly wrapped the unshielded connection from ECU wire to Sensor making sure that both ends touched the original shielding.
Then with a 10" Piece of double walled heatshrink, I covered the entire thing. When heated the glue inside seals both ends.
The line is the RPM and honestly, I'm no tech, but I expect a starter cranking a motor through compression to bounce like that.. Correct me if I don't make sense..
Can you at Haltech let me know if the Trigger and Home numbers make sense for a 36-1 +Home?
05-24-2009, 11:22 AM
#67
0.5 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 152
Made the car run off of the charge from my other with cables.
I have tried and failed to make the Mazda alternator control work so I am looking at the easy reliable solution.
On Monday I will contact an alternator shop to see if they have an alternator that has a regulator that is a direct fit, or if they can make this alternator run old school like normal. (Two Wires)
I am playing with the Prime Map and the Post start map now that I have a basic idea how much fuel the car needs to run, now I am making the car have the gas it needs to start automatically rather than me juicing with the trim.
An original 35% was reduced off the base map and now a further 26% was removed from the entire map. It's easy to do this in excel.
Edit: The base came back up 9% and I reduced some off the Crank Prime Map and the Post start Enrich Map
The car originally would not idle by itself and the idle motor was all the way open. I had to open the throttle a bit, I decided to open the throttle with the throttle stop..I originally adjusted the Throttle set screw way too much and the idle motor went to 0% duty with the car still at 1400 RPM (No problem). Adjusted it several times very small adjustments and now the idle motor is actually doing what it should do perfectly. The idle bumps a bit between 950 and 1000 cold, and 750 to 800 warm. A slight pulse in the idle is the least of my concerns, but all the basic systems work fine. I had to clean my plugs which meant taking that plate off. It's easier to access the plugs than I thought. There are only two bolts that hold it in place and the wires are long, I can place the entire thing still connected to all the wires over the injectors on a clean rag.
I have tried and failed to make the Mazda alternator control work so I am looking at the easy reliable solution.
On Monday I will contact an alternator shop to see if they have an alternator that has a regulator that is a direct fit, or if they can make this alternator run old school like normal. (Two Wires)
I am playing with the Prime Map and the Post start map now that I have a basic idea how much fuel the car needs to run, now I am making the car have the gas it needs to start automatically rather than me juicing with the trim.
An original 35% was reduced off the base map and now a further 26% was removed from the entire map. It's easy to do this in excel.
Edit: The base came back up 9% and I reduced some off the Crank Prime Map and the Post start Enrich Map
The car originally would not idle by itself and the idle motor was all the way open. I had to open the throttle a bit, I decided to open the throttle with the throttle stop..I originally adjusted the Throttle set screw way too much and the idle motor went to 0% duty with the car still at 1400 RPM (No problem). Adjusted it several times very small adjustments and now the idle motor is actually doing what it should do perfectly. The idle bumps a bit between 950 and 1000 cold, and 750 to 800 warm. A slight pulse in the idle is the least of my concerns, but all the basic systems work fine. I had to clean my plugs which meant taking that plate off. It's easier to access the plugs than I thought. There are only two bolts that hold it in place and the wires are long, I can place the entire thing still connected to all the wires over the injectors on a clean rag.
05-29-2009, 07:17 AM
#69
0.5 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 152
Yesterday...
Picked up some new intake parts today.
1 90 Deg bend for the throttle inlet. It is a reinforced silicon coupler that will not get totally damaged by the brake master cylinder like the aluminum will. Should also absorb some vibration. I have been getting tired of the Aluminum being weakened at the bend.
4 x 2.5" Hump couplers and clamps
4 x 2.0" Hump couplers and clamps
All in black. Should make the engine bay look better. I hate the blue ones that are currently on the car, this is the third time I have installed them and taken them off. They are fantastic quality, but I think color under the my hood looks like POOP.
Today...
Got the alternator back yesterday and after discussing it with the owner of the shop, if the "Sense" wire is turned off when the engine is still turning quickly, the regulator will see Zero Volts and try to increase output and pop diodes.
The ignition key on the protege has a couple of wires.
Two different constant Power from the Battery according to the diagram.
The first click turns on only Accessory, (Radio) but this turns off for cranking and returns.
The second click maintains Accessory, but also turns on Ignition (Haltech) This setting remains on during cranking.
It is important to make sure that the Haltech is on this one so it does not turn off every time you try to start the car.
Because the Sense wire on the alternator has to be live during cranking as well, I hooked it to this wire. But as soon as the key is switched off for the ECU, the Alternator which is still spinning quickly looses it's field and overloads until it stops spinning.
I have taken two relays.
Positive in From Battery are both together.
Both Positive from the relays are both going to the Sense wire.
The trigger grounds are grounded
One Trigger is tied to Accessory from the key
One Trigger is tied to Run from the key.
This way, when I switch off the car, the second relay will maintain the power, and during cranking the first relay will maintain the power.
It will be important to turn the key off one click and wait for the motor to stop before turning the key off fully and removing it.
Not a big deal. Almost nobody else drives my car except my wife.
Picked up some new intake parts today.
1 90 Deg bend for the throttle inlet. It is a reinforced silicon coupler that will not get totally damaged by the brake master cylinder like the aluminum will. Should also absorb some vibration. I have been getting tired of the Aluminum being weakened at the bend.
4 x 2.5" Hump couplers and clamps
4 x 2.0" Hump couplers and clamps
All in black. Should make the engine bay look better. I hate the blue ones that are currently on the car, this is the third time I have installed them and taken them off. They are fantastic quality, but I think color under the my hood looks like POOP.
Today...
Got the alternator back yesterday and after discussing it with the owner of the shop, if the "Sense" wire is turned off when the engine is still turning quickly, the regulator will see Zero Volts and try to increase output and pop diodes.
The ignition key on the protege has a couple of wires.
Two different constant Power from the Battery according to the diagram.
The first click turns on only Accessory, (Radio) but this turns off for cranking and returns.
The second click maintains Accessory, but also turns on Ignition (Haltech) This setting remains on during cranking.
It is important to make sure that the Haltech is on this one so it does not turn off every time you try to start the car.
Because the Sense wire on the alternator has to be live during cranking as well, I hooked it to this wire. But as soon as the key is switched off for the ECU, the Alternator which is still spinning quickly looses it's field and overloads until it stops spinning.
I have taken two relays.
Positive in From Battery are both together.
Both Positive from the relays are both going to the Sense wire.
The trigger grounds are grounded
One Trigger is tied to Accessory from the key
One Trigger is tied to Run from the key.
This way, when I switch off the car, the second relay will maintain the power, and during cranking the first relay will maintain the power.
It will be important to turn the key off one click and wait for the motor to stop before turning the key off fully and removing it.
Not a big deal. Almost nobody else drives my car except my wife.
05-29-2009, 03:40 PM
#70
0.5 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 152
It's been 15 months since my car has run.
I did forget the suspension and the sounds of the turbine spooling.
UPDATE:
Progress.
I have taken the car for a total of 100 Km.
I have had help with the map, a friend riding shotgun with the laptop. We return and have a look at the map, estimate the values based on the slope and then apply them and go for a drive again.
Here is what I got so far..
I did forget the suspension and the sounds of the turbine spooling.
UPDATE:
Progress.
I have taken the car for a total of 100 Km.
I have had help with the map, a friend riding shotgun with the laptop. We return and have a look at the map, estimate the values based on the slope and then apply them and go for a drive again.
Here is what I got so far..
