Originally Posted by President Bush

"I think the national anthem ought to be sung in English," he said. "And I think people who want to be a citizen of this country ought to learn English, and they ought to learn to sing the national anthem in English."

Originally Posted by Mrs. Bush

"I don't think there's anything wrong with singing it in Spanish."

Originally Posted by Mrs. Bush

"Well, I think it should be sung in English, of course,"

Originally Posted by Mrs. Bush

"I love it when I look at the bottom of `Amazing Grace' and there are the words in the Methodist hymnal in Swahili,"

Originally Posted by skinnye

illegals suck, legals are cool. Only thing the illegals are good for is cheap house cleaning

Originally Posted by jundoc

but they do jobs that lazy fucks cant....you got to give that... :8

Originally Posted by jundoc

but they do jobs that lazy fucks cant....you got to give that... :8

Originally Posted by d16forlife

Steve its nice to know that I'm your enemy now.

I have to agree with PMP that a guest worker program is the way to go.Enforce it by fineing the ---- out of people(like $20k per employe) that hire illigals.Eventually if no one gives them work they will leave.

I find it weird that on that chart 35% of Jews think we need more migrant workers.

And for those who argue that illigals will work for $2p/h,where do you get these #s from.I know they have brought down the pay scale in constrution considerably(about 1/2) but not$2p/h.If its sarcasm them ok.

Originally Posted by SinisterCRX

Shut the ---- up with that! No decent American is going to work 14 hours a day, 7 days a week for $2 an hour. THAT'S WHY we don't take the jobs mother fucker, not because we're lazy!

Originally Posted by skinnye

illegals suck, legals are cool. Only thing the illegals are good for is cheap house cleaning

Originally Posted by Stealthmode

A real poll with neutral language that tells the immigration story. Know your enemy.


http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/2006poll.html

Originally Posted by Sinner

until they total your car and dont have insurance. Can illegals get insurance?

Originally Posted by PoorMansPorsche

shut the ---- up with this bullshit.. fact of the matter you guys mean nothing in this situation.. you will loose your jobs if you desreve to loose your jobs and they will get into this country no matter how tall of a fence we build. You cant do anything about it. The more we "try" to legitamize a solid border, the more extreme-ist mind set we adopt.

Originally Posted by stillnoturbo

I say open the borders cause the only people you hear complaining are honkies.

Originally Posted by stillnoturbo

OH NO PEOPLE ARE COMING HERE FOR A BETTER OPPURTUNITY AND LIFE AND WE DID THE SAME THING BUT WE KILLED PEOPLE WHEN WE DID IT. This is pretty shitty

Originally Posted by stillnoturbo

My people lived here long before any white man every stood foot on this land but still only became actual citizens in 1924. How could these Europeans come over and tell us we were citizens in our country?

Originally Posted by jundoc

but they do jobs that lazy fucks cant....you got to give that... :8

Originally Posted by Michael Tanner

America has always been a nation of immigrants. Thomas Jefferson emphasized this basic part of the American heritage, taking note of "the natural right which all men have of relinquishing the country in which birth or other accident may have thrown them, and seeking subsistence and happiness wheresoever they may be able, and hope to find them."

The Libertarian Party has long recognized the importance of allowing free and open immigration, understanding that this leads to a growing and more prosperous America. We condemn the xenophobic immigrant bashing that would build a wall around the United States. At the same time, we recognize that the right to enter the United States does not include the right to economic entitlements such as welfare. The freedom to immigrate is a freedom of opportunity, not a guarantee of a handout.

A policy of open immigration will advance the economic well-being of all Americans. All major recent studies of immigrants indicate that they have a high labor force participation, are entrepreneurial, and tend to have specialized skills that allow them to enter under-served markets. Although it is a common misconception that immigrants "take jobs away from native-born Americans," this does not appear to be true. In 1989, the U.S. Department of Labor reviewed nearly 100 studies on the relationship between immigration and unemployment and concluded that "neither U.S. workers nor most minority workers appear adversely affected by immigration."

Indeed, most studies show that immigrants actually lead to an increase in the number of jobs available. Immigrants produce jobs in several ways: 1) They expand the demand for goods and services through their own consumption; 2) They bring savings with them that contribute to overall investment and productivity; 3) They are more highly entrepreneurial than native-born Americans and create jobs through the businesses they start; 4) They fill gaps in the low and high ends of the labor markets, producing subsidiary jobs for American workers; 5) Low-wage immigrants may enable threatened American businesses to survive competition from low-wage businesses abroad; and 6) They contribute to increased economic efficiencies through economies of scale.

Confirmation can be seen in a study by economists Richard Vedder and Lowell Galloway of Ohio University and Stephen Moore of the Cato Institute. They found that states with the highest rates of immigration during the 1980s also had the highest rates of economic growth and lowest rates of unemployment.

Studies also show that not only do immigrants not take jobs away from American workers, they also do not drive down wages. Numerous studies have demonstrated that increased immigration has little or no effect on the wages of most American workers, and may even increase wages at upper income levels.

Contrary to stereotypes, there is no evidence that immigrants come to this country to receive welfare. Indeed, most studies show that immigrants actually use welfare at lower rates than do native-born Americans. For example, a study of welfare recipients in New York City found that only 7.7% of immigrants were receiving welfare compared to 13.3% for the population as a whole. Likewise, a nationwide study by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics found that 12.8% of immigrants were receiving welfare benefits, compared to 13.9% of the general population. Some recent studies indicate that the rate of welfare usage may now be equalizing between immigrants and native-born Americans, but, clearly, most immigrants are not on welfare.

The impact of immigrants on taxes is more equivocal. Most immigrants pay more in taxes than they receive in government benefits. However, the majority of immigrant taxes are paid to the federal government, while immigrants tend to use mostly state and local services. This can place a burden on states and localities in high immigration areas.

However, the answer to this problem lies not in cutting off immigration, but in cutting the services that immigrants consume. The right to immigrate does not imply a right to welfare -- or any other government service. Moreover, this is not simply a matter of saving tax money. The Libertarian Party believes that most government welfare programs are destructive to the recipients themselves. Thus, immigrants would actually be better off without access to these programs. As Edward Crane, President of the Cato Institute, has put it:

"Suppose we increased the level of immigration, but the rule would be that immigrants and their descendants would have no access to government social services, including welfare, Social Security, health care, business subsidies, and the public schools. I would argue, first, that there would be no lack of takers for that proposition. Second, within a generation, we would see those immigrants' children going to better and cheaper schools than the average citizen; there would be less poverty, a better work ethic, and proportionately more entrepreneurs than in the rest of U.S. society; and virtually everyone in that group would have inexpensive high-deductible catastrophic health insurance, while the 'truly needy' would be cared for by an immigrant culture that gave proportionately more to charity."

Finally, any discussion of immigration must include a warning about the threat to civil liberties posed by many of the proposals to limit immigration. Recent legislation to restrict immigration has included calls for a national identity card for all Americans. Senator Diane Feinstein (CA-D) has suggested that such an ID card should contain an individual's photograph, fingerprints, and even retina scans. Representative Lamar Smith (R-TX) has proposed legislation that would require employers to consult a national registry of workers before hiring anyone, effectively giving the U.S. government control over every hiring decision by every business in America.

Other legislation has contained provisions penalizing people who fail to "inform" on people they "suspect" might be illegal immigrants. Such Orwellian nightmares have no place in a free society, but are the natural outgrowth of an obsession with restricting immigration.

Originally Posted by d112crzy

we really cant do ---- about the current illegals that are here

i agree, everyone needs to ------- come here legally and not disrespect america.

but alli hear i bitching from you people about how they take jobs and how they dont pay taxes and ----. In all truthness, if you're not gona do ---- about, shut the ---- up.

you guys are seriously attacking this the wrong way.

Originally Posted by fysh

I live in southwest missouri and the area is filled with bigots and rednecks, but jesus ------ christ Stealth whens the klan meeting? White POWER!

Originally Posted by Stealthmode

So what you're saying is that
1) You think it's hopeless to enforce our laws because they are being broken so often.

2) You expect me (or anyone else) to personally make a difference by ourselves? Making you aware of what's really going on is my contribution to the issue.

3) You want everyone to come here legally, but we can't do anything about the 11 million because they are 11 million, and having a topic on the subject to enlighten the general public (instead of their local news) is not attacking it in the right way. I think waking people up is the first thing that needs to happen, company of threads like this.

Originally Posted by Stealthmode

It's general discussion. I'll post an illegal immigration thread once an hour if I want. If you haven't noticed, it's kind of a hot issue right now, and how many of the total illegal immigrant threads were started by me?

Being a little bitch is not having the nuts to confront the problem by being passive. If you don't like this thread, than go post in the ever informative thread about how to post pictures. :S

Originally Posted by Stealthmode

My intention wasn't to have another illegal thread. I found an unbiased poll that shows exactly where every which type of person is voting on the issue. Since everyone speculates that the rest of the world feels just like they do (a natural fallacy), I thought the poll is more than informative.

"They take our jobs" isn't a sign of anyone really knowing what they're talking about, but I can't really control that. I'm just hopeful that in the next immigration thread they'll be a little more informed so they can throw out the "they take our jobs" and then some. :)

Originally Posted by Stealthmode

No, I give people jobs.