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I-6 Vs. V-6
So, we were talking in auto class today about the benefits of inline vs. v engines and the consensus was that inline engines have more torque than v engines, but no one really had a good reason why. Does anyone know a good reason why the inline engines inherently have more torque than V?
Or if you disagree, throw that out there too. |
Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
i disagree, displacement cam profile and head design have more to do with torque. the benifits of inline versus the v are more for weight distribution and fitting a certain amount of cylinders into a set space
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Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
i thought it would be the opposite... but now that i think about it most high tq diesel motors are inline.
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Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
Originally Posted by rawr
i disagree, displacement cam profile and head design have more to do with torque. the benifits of inline versus the v are more for weight distribution and fitting a certain amount of cylinders into a set space
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Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
i thought it was because of the air flow patern. like in a v6 you have so split the air over to smaller head right? but a i6 it just goes straight across the flat head. i dunno if this has anything to do with it but thats what i was thinkin. smoother air travle = more tq? dunno but makes sence in my head
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Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
Originally Posted by Dx 101
i thought it was because of the air flow patern. like in a v6 you have so split the air over to smaller head right? but a i6 it just goes straight across the flat head. i dunno if this has anything to do with it but thats what i was thinkin. smoother air travle = more tq? dunno but makes sence in my head
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Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
I6 engines supposedly run a bit smoother than the V type
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Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
well you need to maintain velocity to get max torque. Too much flow and you'll lose torque.
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Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
It's all about volumetric efficiency
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Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
i guess i can chime in with what it thinks.
as someone stated, inline engines with their up and down piston motion tend to be smooth. and there is not as much force against the cylinder walls rotating. a blanked statement saying inline engines have more torque than v engines is wrong i would say. its definatly a matter of what the engine was built for. i also think inline engines due to their up and down design run better and smoother at low rpms. but im not too sure about that |
Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
johnny hows is there not as much force against the cylinders?
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Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
Firing order and firing sequences ------
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Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
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Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
Originally Posted by ghettoturbo
johnny hows is there not as much force against the cylinders?
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/jbliss/ex.jpg |
Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
V engines are not different than straight engines when it comes to loading the pistons...
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Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
think about it...each side of a v is an inline 3...so i doubt it loads the walls any different unless the design of the specific engine has a worse rod angle...at least thats how i understand it, im sure im wrong
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Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
Originally Posted by baldur
well you need to maintain velocity to get max torque. Too much flow and you'll lose torque.
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Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
v6 are better at achieving a lower center point of gravity. Hence why the new z350 has a v6 instead of an inline 6 like the rb26dett and more likely the new skyline will use a v6 type engine instead of a inline. I've seen where some Japanese tuners have used the VQ in a r34 to lower the center point even lower then you could of with the rb26dett. I know this doesn't really pertain to the tq debate but just another note to add into the debate. I like my L28 in my Z and inline engines better just being alil more easier to work on instead dealing with two heads to deal with. It may be a taller engine but ease of working with it is a big deal with me. Just one reason why I would never buy a z350 or a sube or anyother v type engine. :)
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Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
Originally Posted by krustindumm
Originally Posted by baldur
well you need to maintain velocity to get max torque. Too much flow and you'll lose torque.
I6 engines are superior (IMO) because they have more main bearings than a v6. This stabilizes the crankshaft more, and allows for more tq production than a V design, with less stress on the bearings and the crank. btw, 350z = z33, not z350 If you make your ports too big they won't become efficient until you are out of revs. The key is to have the right amount of flow. If you make ports that flow a lot more than your engine has a chance of digesting you're only losing power. |
Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
Originally Posted by stillnoturbo
v6 are better at achieving a lower center point of gravity. Hence why the new z350 has a v6 instead of an inline 6 like the rb26dett and more likely the new skyline will use a v6 type engine instead of a inline. I've seen where some Japanese tuners have used the VQ in a r34 to lower the center point even lower then you could of with the rb26dett. I know this doesn't really pertain to the tq debate but just another note to add into the debate. I like my L28 in my Z and inline engines better just being alil more easier to work on instead dealing with two heads to deal with. It may be a taller engine but ease of working with it is a big deal with me. Just one reason why I would never buy a z350 or a sube or anyother v type engine. :)
At one point when BMW were using a straight 4 cyl engine in their Formula 1 cars, they tilted it 90 degrees to push the weight all the way to the ground so it was angled like a boxer engine. |
Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
Originally Posted by ghettoturbo
think about it...each side of a v is an inline 3...so i doubt it loads the walls any different unless the design of the specific engine has a worse rod angle...at least thats how i understand it, im sure im wrong
Originally Posted by baldur
V engines are not different than straight engines when it comes to loading the pistons...
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/jbliss/ex.jpg |
Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
Originally Posted by stillnoturbo
v6 are better at achieving a lower center point of gravity. Hence why the new z350 has a v6 instead of an inline 6 like the rb26dett and more likely the new skyline will use a v6 type engine instead of a inline. I've seen where some Japanese tuners have used the VQ in a r34 to lower the center point even lower then you could of with the rb26dett. I know this doesn't really pertain to the tq debate but just another note to add into the debate. I like my L28 in my Z and inline engines better just being alil more easier to work on instead dealing with two heads to deal with. It may be a taller engine but ease of working with it is a big deal with me. Just one reason why I would never buy a z350 or a sube or anyother v type engine. :)
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Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
Originally Posted by random-strike
Originally Posted by ghettoturbo
think about it...each side of a v is an inline 3...so i doubt it loads the walls any different unless the design of the specific engine has a worse rod angle...at least thats how i understand it, im sure im wrong
Originally Posted by baldur
V engines are not different than straight engines when it comes to loading the pistons...
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/jbliss/ex.jpg The cylinders are also not off-center. |
Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
Originally Posted by baldur
Originally Posted by random-strike
Originally Posted by ghettoturbo
think about it...each side of a v is an inline 3...so i doubt it loads the walls any different unless the design of the specific engine has a worse rod angle...at least thats how i understand it, im sure im wrong
Originally Posted by baldur
V engines are not different than straight engines when it comes to loading the pistons...
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/jbliss/ex.jpg The cylinders are also not off-center. |
Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
ARRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHhHHHHHHH!!!!!
Stop writing stupid things, just stop. You need to have the gas velocity in a certain range to manage to fill the cylinder properly, make the ports too big and your torque will suffer. Same applies to valves and cams, go too big and your performance will suffer badly. |
Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
The rod rotates on the pin on every engine, because if it wouldn't, the engine couldn't even turn over...
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Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
Originally Posted by baldur
The rod rotates on the pin on every engine, because if it wouldn't, the engine couldn't even turn over...
i dont know anything about engines :( |
Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
uhh.. the rod is what should tell you where the force is being placed inside the cylinder; on the compression stroke the angle faces one direction, on the decompression it's angled the opposite way. Simple as that. My inline 4 cyl doesn't have pistons that magically hop up and down, it does have a crank and some rods that rotate and exert force against the walls in the same way all piston engines do.
The only difference between inline and V designs would theoretically be a sort of gravitational droop for the V style since it's own weight is pushing itself into the lower cyl wall, but that's just a laymens guess as far as it really becoming a torque limiting factor. |
Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
Originally Posted by turboj0hn
uhh.. the rod is what should tell you where the force is being placed inside the cylinder; on the compression stroke the angle faces one direction, on the decompression it's angled the opposite way. Simple as that. My inline 4 cyl doesn't have pistons that magically hop up and down, it does have a crank and some rods that rotate and exert force against the walls in the same way all piston engines do.
The only difference between inline and V designs would theoretically be a sort of gravitational droop for the V style since it's own weight is pushing itself into the lower cyl wall, but that's just a laymens guess as far as it really becoming a torque limiting factor. |
Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
Originally Posted by random-strike
Originally Posted by baldur
Originally Posted by random-strike
Originally Posted by ghettoturbo
think about it...each side of a v is an inline 3...so i doubt it loads the walls any different unless the design of the specific engine has a worse rod angle...at least thats how i understand it, im sure im wrong
Originally Posted by baldur
V engines are not different than straight engines when it comes to loading the pistons...
im sorry but you're both wrong, please understand i said cylinder walls not pistons. please notice that when a V engine rotates it is moving into the cylinder wall rather than straight up or down. and on the power stroke the piston is moving down at an angle thus putting more stress on the wall rather than moving down in a straight line https://www.homemadeturbo.com/jbliss/ex.jpg The cylinders are also not off-center. http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/we...ZkMzF5NTQx.jpg you can see that on a i6 the static gravity pushes straight down towards the crank. On a v6, its pushes the piston up against the cylinderwall. |
Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
Must have been that backwoods education that made it hard for everyone to understand. Explaination is key.
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Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
The piston is accelerated hundreds of g's when the engine is turning, gravity is 1g.
The rod is pulling the piston against the cylinder walls very hard hundreds of times per second. Sorry but it's not going to care about gravity. |
Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
Originally Posted by 45psi
Originally Posted by random-strike
Originally Posted by baldur
Originally Posted by random-strike
Originally Posted by ghettoturbo
think about it...each side of a v is an inline 3...so i doubt it loads the walls any different unless the design of the specific engine has a worse rod angle...at least thats how i understand it, im sure im wrong
Originally Posted by baldur
V engines are not different than straight engines when it comes to loading the pistons...
im sorry but you're both wrong, please understand i said cylinder walls not pistons. please notice that when a V engine rotates it is moving into the cylinder wall rather than straight up or down. and on the power stroke the piston is moving down at an angle thus putting more stress on the wall rather than moving down in a straight line https://www.homemadeturbo.com/jbliss/ex.jpg The cylinders are also not off-center. http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/we...ZkMzF5NTQx.jpg you can see that on a i6 the static gravity pushes straight down towards the crank. On a v6, its pushes the piston up against the cylinderwall. |
Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
Originally Posted by rawr
the stress on a v engine is going to be on the top of the piston from oil starvation. the oil is going to run to the bottom of the cylender and its going to keep it protected.
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Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
Originally Posted by krustindumm
Originally Posted by baldur
Originally Posted by rawr
the stress on a v engine is going to be on the top of the piston from oil starvation. the oil is going to run to the bottom of the cylender and its going to keep it protected.
even with your theory the piston still has a horizontal surface for oil to collect on. we can already prove through physics that there is no advantage for torque or power production, or for oiling. This leaves vibratoin, anyone care to take a guess which is more balanced? |
Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
i think the verdict is who cares, and we're all stupid and nothing matters except the wrx can never lose :8
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Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
Originally Posted by krustindumm
Originally Posted by baldur
Originally Posted by rawr
the stress on a v engine is going to be on the top of the piston from oil starvation. the oil is going to run to the bottom of the cylender and its going to keep it protected.
even with your theory the piston still has a horizontal surface for oil to collect on. we can already prove through physics that there is no advantage for torque or power production, or for oiling. This leaves vibratoin, anyone care to take a guess which is more balanced? And an inline 6 is more balanced. If you look at large diesels, most of them are inline 6 until they get to about 12 liters of displacement, then they usually go V12. |
Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
so the totally verticle surfaces of an inline engine are not going to drain the oil off?
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Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
It more depends on the amount of journals per 360* of crank. Most V6 have 3 journals, as opposed to an inline 6 having 6 journals. The more journals per 360* of crank, the smoother the motor. That is because you don't have as much time in between power strokes for friction to slow the rotating assembly down. Look at it like there's a more constant power supply than in a V6.
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Re: I-6 Vs. V-6
i just wanna add something about the 350z
they really just picked the v6 because thats the cheapest, most widely used engine they have in their new cars its really all about the money why waste money and time on r&d again when u can just use whats there and proven to work |
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