holy ---- the sky is falling, Jd wants a K series.
#41
Re: holy ---- the sky is falling, Jd wants a K series.
Originally Posted by Joseph Davis
How does the KS stuff work on MS? Done "properly" it's DSP-based, but I know the AEM guys just look at it based off the volume of noise coming off of it and claim it works well.
#42
Re: holy ---- the sky is falling, Jd wants a K series.
Sounds like an overly complex system that can cause trouble. I don't mind a KS that pulls a little timing, but in truth it shouldn't vary significantly from the timing figures derived from tuning. If it has to pull a little timing frequently, or a lot of timing at any point, I'd want to know so I could inspect/fix my ----.
Two thoughts. First is the KS must be designed for the bore as well, I know some people were hopping on the GM units for various reasons. In truth they (IIRC) were fairly broad spectrum units but there's still a good chance of putting the wrong one on the wrong engine. Second, a lot of Nissans and Mitsus die because they go into knock feedback loops where detonation yanks timing, overheats exhaust valves to the point they become hotspots and preignition starts. What the engine needs is to be shut down and cooled, but what happens is the driver continues to beat on the car until it comes apart because they don't know better.
Hey, I just recently got my laptop back from repair and don't have my bookmarks anymore (I deleted them to prevent identity theft), but doesn't boris do the low-Z injector driver boards for the MS, too? Those are freaking great for use in staged injection setups on most anything, instead of $150 plus ship and enthusiast can put together their own for $40.
Two thoughts. First is the KS must be designed for the bore as well, I know some people were hopping on the GM units for various reasons. In truth they (IIRC) were fairly broad spectrum units but there's still a good chance of putting the wrong one on the wrong engine. Second, a lot of Nissans and Mitsus die because they go into knock feedback loops where detonation yanks timing, overheats exhaust valves to the point they become hotspots and preignition starts. What the engine needs is to be shut down and cooled, but what happens is the driver continues to beat on the car until it comes apart because they don't know better.
Hey, I just recently got my laptop back from repair and don't have my bookmarks anymore (I deleted them to prevent identity theft), but doesn't boris do the low-Z injector driver boards for the MS, too? Those are freaking great for use in staged injection setups on most anything, instead of $150 plus ship and enthusiast can put together their own for $40.
#43
Re: holy ---- the sky is falling, Jd wants a K series.
Originally Posted by Joseph Davis
Sounds like an overly complex system that can cause trouble. I don't mind a KS that pulls a little timing, but in truth it shouldn't vary significantly from the timing figures derived from tuning. If it has to pull a little timing frequently, or a lot of timing at any point, I'd want to know so I could inspect/fix my ----.
Two thoughts. First is the KS must be designed for the bore as well, I know some people were hopping on the GM units for various reasons. In truth they (IIRC) were fairly broad spectrum units but there's still a good chance of putting the wrong one on the wrong engine. Second, a lot of Nissans and Mitsus die because they go into knock feedback loops where detonation yanks timing, overheats exhaust valves to the point they become hotspots and preignition starts. What the engine needs is to be shut down and cooled, but what happens is the driver continues to beat on the car until it comes apart because they don't know better.
Hey, I just recently got my laptop back from repair and don't have my bookmarks anymore (I deleted them to prevent identity theft), but doesn't boris do the low-Z injector driver boards for the MS, too? Those are freaking great for use in staged injection setups on most anything, instead of $150 plus ship and enthusiast can put together their own for $40.
Two thoughts. First is the KS must be designed for the bore as well, I know some people were hopping on the GM units for various reasons. In truth they (IIRC) were fairly broad spectrum units but there's still a good chance of putting the wrong one on the wrong engine. Second, a lot of Nissans and Mitsus die because they go into knock feedback loops where detonation yanks timing, overheats exhaust valves to the point they become hotspots and preignition starts. What the engine needs is to be shut down and cooled, but what happens is the driver continues to beat on the car until it comes apart because they don't know better.
Hey, I just recently got my laptop back from repair and don't have my bookmarks anymore (I deleted them to prevent identity theft), but doesn't boris do the low-Z injector driver boards for the MS, too? Those are freaking great for use in staged injection setups on most anything, instead of $150 plus ship and enthusiast can put together their own for $40.
If I set it up, it would only have say 5* of authority. That's not a ton, but it's some. If, say, my AIT sensor died so I lost AIT based retard and simultaneously something blocked my IC during boost, and I knocked, it pulling up to 5* to keep it from knocking will be beneficial. Though that will increase EGT's, it's still better than detonation. With the WI, EGT's will be in check anyways. I can also log knock events.
I think Boris does that board, but not 100% sure. Friend of mine bought a couple of them unassembled for 20 each. Not sure where he got them though. FWIW, I'm running low ohm 550's with my MS2. It supports low ohm injectors. Only thing was it did cause some noise (hence the need for a injector driver board), but I simply lifted the 12V+ feed wires on the TIP125's that drive the injectors and ran that back to the injectors. So that when Lens's law kicks in, it's got a loop that's outside of MS. Works very very well.
#44
Re: holy ---- the sky is falling, Jd wants a K series.
Five degrees retard is plenty. If the car is tuned correctly you have a 3-5 degree (on average) buffer between best power and detonation. Any more and there's something wrong. Can you flash a CEL or other warning for excessive knock count?
Also, don't expect WI to protect you from pre-ignition. The chamber is cooled so detonation, and some causes of preignition, are curbed but the temps across the exhaust valves remains constant until you get into the sort of water cooling where you can drain the cooling jacket as it isn't needed.
Also, don't expect WI to protect you from pre-ignition. The chamber is cooled so detonation, and some causes of preignition, are curbed but the temps across the exhaust valves remains constant until you get into the sort of water cooling where you can drain the cooling jacket as it isn't needed.
#45
Re: holy ---- the sky is falling, Jd wants a K series.
Originally Posted by Joseph Davis
Five degrees retard is plenty. If the car is tuned correctly you have a 3-5 degree (on average) buffer between best power and detonation. Any more and there's something wrong. Can you flash a CEL or other warning for excessive knock count?
Also, don't expect WI to protect you from pre-ignition. The chamber is cooled so detonation, and some causes of preignition, are curbed but the temps across the exhaust valves remains constant until you get into the sort of water cooling where you can drain the cooling jacket as it isn't needed.
Also, don't expect WI to protect you from pre-ignition. The chamber is cooled so detonation, and some causes of preignition, are curbed but the temps across the exhaust valves remains constant until you get into the sort of water cooling where you can drain the cooling jacket as it isn't needed.
The KnockSenseMS comes with a super bright LED driven by the KSMS that lights when it sees knock. Of course this output could be adapted to light up whatever you want. I just use the LED it came with.
I've never used WI before. But from my research, it does lower EGT's. Depends how much you use, but say 10% by volume of water to fuel is gonna remove a lot of heat. It slows the combustion process, shifting PPP a few degrees. That's a safety cushion.
#46
Re: holy ---- the sky is falling, Jd wants a K series.
Lowering EGTs is different from the temp of the exhaust valve. Read some of Ricardo's work on water injection, the temp across the exhaust valve guide remains proportional to the engine's specific output until you inject massive amounts of water.
#48
Re: holy ---- the sky is falling, Jd wants a K series.
22. Water injection has a cooling effect on the engine head, valves, and cylinder. Exhaust temperatures (EGT) are largely unaffected at recommended water / fuel ratios.
23. The cooling of potential hot spots in the combustion chamber defeats pre-ignition, the most destructive form of uncontrolled or unplanned combustion.
23. The cooling of potential hot spots in the combustion chamber defeats pre-ignition, the most destructive form of uncontrolled or unplanned combustion.
That guy? I don't see how you can superheat a liquid, remove heat from the control volume and reduce heat going out of the control volume, and not reduce the temp of the exhaust valves. But I'll keep reading.
#50
Re: holy ---- the sky is falling, Jd wants a K series.
Originally Posted by patsmx5
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html
That guy? I don't see how you can superheat a liquid, remove heat from the control volume and reduce heat going out of the control volume, and not reduce the temp of the exhaust valves. But I'll keep reading.
That guy? I don't see how you can superheat a liquid, remove heat from the control volume and reduce heat going out of the control volume, and not reduce the temp of the exhaust valves. But I'll keep reading.
You might get the face of the exhaust valve a little cooler, but the simple fact of the matter is that the entirety of the exhaust's thermal mass passes right across the valve. There's a direct relationship between engine longevity and exhaust valve guide temps.