Has anyone tried E85? (Ethanol)
05-24-2010, 08:33 AM
#1
0.5 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Elkhart, IN
Posts: 51
Has anyone tried E85? (Ethanol)
Looks to be very promising. Cheaper than gas, however you need to burn 15-30% more, but it's 104-108 octane!
I'm modifying my car to accept E85, should be finished tonight hopefully. I modified my fuel pump hanger to accept two walbro hotwired fuel pumps, & made a tee to join the duel lines to connect into the stock line. I've also got ethanol safe 0-rings, and soon will have a stainless steel filter to replace my paper filter.
Anyone else?
I'm modifying my car to accept E85, should be finished tonight hopefully. I modified my fuel pump hanger to accept two walbro hotwired fuel pumps, & made a tee to join the duel lines to connect into the stock line. I've also got ethanol safe 0-rings, and soon will have a stainless steel filter to replace my paper filter.
Anyone else?
05-25-2010, 12:59 PM
#4
0.0 BAR
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2
YOUR GONNA HAVE TO GET A STANDALONE ECU OR PROGRAMMER TO RUN RIGHT AND BIGGER INJECTORS, STOCK FILTERS WORK, IVE RUN E85 ON MY CIVIC FOR OVER 2 YEARS AND NEVER CONVERTED THE SYSTEM STILL RUNS GREAT AND MY EMISSIONS PASSES WITH FLYING COLORS. SUCK IN THE WINTER TIME ITS HARDER TO START UP. IF YOU LOOK AT THE GAS STATION YOUR PUMPING SOME ETHENOL ALREADY, THERES A YEAR BREAK WHEN THEY STARTED TO RUN THAT ETHENOL. SO IT DOENST HARM YOUR LINES OR GASKETS OR SEALS. JUST MAKE SURE TO GET IT TUNE A/F ARE WAY DIFFRENT FROM REGULAR GAS. E85 STOICH FUEL RATIO IS ABOUT (7.5-8.5 A/F E85) IS EQUVALENT TO (14.7A/F GAS).
05-25-2010, 07:15 PM
#5
0.5 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Elkhart, IN
Posts: 51
YOUR GONNA HAVE TO GET A STANDALONE ECU OR PROGRAMMER TO RUN RIGHT AND BIGGER INJECTORS, STOCK FILTERS WORK, IVE RUN E85 ON MY CIVIC FOR OVER 2 YEARS AND NEVER CONVERTED THE SYSTEM STILL RUNS GREAT AND MY EMISSIONS PASSES WITH FLYING COLORS. SUCK IN THE WINTER TIME ITS HARDER TO START UP. IF YOU LOOK AT THE GAS STATION YOUR PUMPING SOME ETHENOL ALREADY, THERES A YEAR BREAK WHEN THEY STARTED TO RUN THAT ETHENOL. SO IT DOENST HARM YOUR LINES OR GASKETS OR SEALS. JUST MAKE SURE TO GET IT TUNE A/F ARE WAY DIFFRENT FROM REGULAR GAS. E85 STOICH FUEL RATIO IS ABOUT (7.5-8.5 A/F E85) IS EQUVALENT TO (14.7A/F GAS).
06-09-2010, 12:21 PM
#6
0.5 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Elkhart, IN
Posts: 51
Alright, fabbed up my fuel pump hangar, increased the fuel pressure and so far have managed 19psi w/ very aggressive timing, no knock, and still fairly rough tune. The stock lines allow enough flow for the extra fuel w/out any backpressure. I wonder how far I can take it. E85 is amazing stuff, I can't believe more people aren't experinmenting w/ it. The car pulls much much harder than it did on 110 octane race gas, probably due to the high oxygen content, and it just runs smoother all around. It's around $2.25 in my city.
06-29-2010, 10:01 PM
#7
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 16
Alright, fabbed up my fuel pump hangar, increased the fuel pressure and so far have managed 19psi w/ very aggressive timing, no knock, and still fairly rough tune. The stock lines allow enough flow for the extra fuel w/out any backpressure. I wonder how far I can take it. E85 is amazing stuff, I can't believe more people aren't experinmenting w/ it. The car pulls much much harder than it did on 110 octane race gas, probably due to the high oxygen content, and it just runs smoother all around. It's around $2.25 in my city.
06-30-2010, 06:19 AM
#8
0.5 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Elkhart, IN
Posts: 51
Well, everything was going fine untill I blew a head gasket. My coolant is bubbling out all over under boost. I remember now I used the cheap graphite gaskets from a kit, apparently they don't do very well under boost. I got some multilayer steel ones now, should have it fixed by next week, huh, this sucks.
07-07-2010, 03:36 AM
#9
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 1
E85
No it should not be a problem. It is only an issue if the water gets in the fuel tank and fuel system. In an EFI application the only time the E85 and water mist will meet up is for a couple of milliseconds as they mix with a 200 mph air flow in the intake port.
As long as your not spraying water when you shut off the engine, it would be impossible for the intake manifold and valves to see any water buildup, and there is no way the fuel can get water in it. The only issue with water in the fuel, is that injectors do not like water in the fuel, and the ECU does not know the injectors are spraying water mixed with fuel so the mixture goes lean.
____________________________
Cannon Digital Rebel
As long as your not spraying water when you shut off the engine, it would be impossible for the intake manifold and valves to see any water buildup, and there is no way the fuel can get water in it. The only issue with water in the fuel, is that injectors do not like water in the fuel, and the ECU does not know the injectors are spraying water mixed with fuel so the mixture goes lean.
____________________________
Cannon Digital Rebel
07-16-2010, 02:19 AM
#10
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 7
Wow, I'm surprised to see such a thread about e85 being so recent.. I guess i assumed everyone knows , and is either converting, sticking to race gas or doing the "as much as i can on pump gas" thing..
personally, I switched my car over to a "felkx fuel" vehicle ( i have a haltech stand alone with 2 maps that change with the flip of a switch, then i can trim the global fuel via a dash **** to compensate for the mix) But after running ethanol for that first summer and getting it tuned to run and start all winter i won't ever look back to regular petrol again ( unless e85 is not available, like on road trips where i set my switch back up to run dual maps) Now days the switch is to arm my n20 that is mainly used as a spool assist and sometimes through the entire gear
Ethanol with the supporting fuel system and fuel timing control is so insanely different from regular fuels it's almost unbelievable... the torque goes through teh roof, horsepower is great and knock resistance is better than i get on c16 ( i run a J&S stand alone knock system which is adjustable to how sensitive i want it)
There's a few little things that can confuse one on e85 though... if you don't increase timing advance then you'll most likely make a minimal gain and some have made losses in power (don't know how but why would you lie and post a dyno sheet showing it LOL )
Anyway.. Besides management here's my setup (hope i'm not getting too into the post and jumbling it up) I am running dual in tank 255hp pumps (custom made my own hangar with dual outlets tht are larger than the OEM outlet, the oulets turn into -6 fittings using push-lock blue -6 line to a "Y" where i continue on with -6 to the filter and rail (stayed with 6 for ease of fitment, cost and that it supports my HP goal of 500 and then some on ethanol flow) I'm running a fuel lab filter with the 10micron SS element *one thing to note is that ethanol cleans your fuel system so well that you'll clog about 3 filters in the first couple months of running it..one after 3 tanks or so, then one a month for 2 more months - converted a lot of other cars and this is almost a rule IMO )
From the fuel line i run a stock 2g 4g63 fuel rail with an aeromotive AFPR that feeds back to the stock mitsu fuel feed line now being used as teh return line) 1000cc injectors and that's it
Now, back to the funny things i mentioned about e85... You can tune it to the same AFR's as pump gas but you will hate it. this fuel will rich knock bad at high boost and rich AFR's.. My car LOVES 12.5 - 12.8:1 under 30psi and 20 - 24* timing through the entire curve at all levels above7psi (higher timing earlier)
If i richen it up, knock-knock-knock she goes, I've even seen AFr's of 13 - 13.2:1 under ~30psi and NO KNOCK, so this is where you must be carefull and aim for MBT or just try and get PCP (peak cylinbder pressure) where you want it which is roughly 15* ATDC
For the first week of running e85 i swore there must have been a beer spilled in my car because i could catch whiffs of old alcohol smells like a case of empties on the kitchen table were left overnight and it started to get warm inside (yuck) (memories from bachelor pad days)
Typically you'll need to add from 18 - 26% more fuel, more timing - a good place to start is add 5* to the entire curve ( i get teh perfect idle with the ac on even and no stalling with a rough 19* at idle (there's variance for load changes with alternator and AC comrpessor)
Hope that's enough info to help ya out.. I've been on the juice (corn juice that is ) for a tad over 3 years now and will run it over any other fuel i can get and the best part is it's cheaper than any fuel i can get..
Now i use my water injectiojn kit pre-turbo to effectively change the compressor map and increase spoolup speed, and my nitrouse helps with sool too
personally, I switched my car over to a "felkx fuel" vehicle ( i have a haltech stand alone with 2 maps that change with the flip of a switch, then i can trim the global fuel via a dash **** to compensate for the mix) But after running ethanol for that first summer and getting it tuned to run and start all winter i won't ever look back to regular petrol again ( unless e85 is not available, like on road trips where i set my switch back up to run dual maps) Now days the switch is to arm my n20 that is mainly used as a spool assist and sometimes through the entire gear
Ethanol with the supporting fuel system and fuel timing control is so insanely different from regular fuels it's almost unbelievable... the torque goes through teh roof, horsepower is great and knock resistance is better than i get on c16 ( i run a J&S stand alone knock system which is adjustable to how sensitive i want it)
There's a few little things that can confuse one on e85 though... if you don't increase timing advance then you'll most likely make a minimal gain and some have made losses in power (don't know how but why would you lie and post a dyno sheet showing it LOL )
Anyway.. Besides management here's my setup (hope i'm not getting too into the post and jumbling it up) I am running dual in tank 255hp pumps (custom made my own hangar with dual outlets tht are larger than the OEM outlet, the oulets turn into -6 fittings using push-lock blue -6 line to a "Y" where i continue on with -6 to the filter and rail (stayed with 6 for ease of fitment, cost and that it supports my HP goal of 500 and then some on ethanol flow) I'm running a fuel lab filter with the 10micron SS element *one thing to note is that ethanol cleans your fuel system so well that you'll clog about 3 filters in the first couple months of running it..one after 3 tanks or so, then one a month for 2 more months - converted a lot of other cars and this is almost a rule IMO )
From the fuel line i run a stock 2g 4g63 fuel rail with an aeromotive AFPR that feeds back to the stock mitsu fuel feed line now being used as teh return line) 1000cc injectors and that's it
Now, back to the funny things i mentioned about e85... You can tune it to the same AFR's as pump gas but you will hate it. this fuel will rich knock bad at high boost and rich AFR's.. My car LOVES 12.5 - 12.8:1 under 30psi and 20 - 24* timing through the entire curve at all levels above7psi (higher timing earlier)
If i richen it up, knock-knock-knock she goes, I've even seen AFr's of 13 - 13.2:1 under ~30psi and NO KNOCK, so this is where you must be carefull and aim for MBT or just try and get PCP (peak cylinbder pressure) where you want it which is roughly 15* ATDC
For the first week of running e85 i swore there must have been a beer spilled in my car because i could catch whiffs of old alcohol smells like a case of empties on the kitchen table were left overnight and it started to get warm inside (yuck) (memories from bachelor pad days)
Typically you'll need to add from 18 - 26% more fuel, more timing - a good place to start is add 5* to the entire curve ( i get teh perfect idle with the ac on even and no stalling with a rough 19* at idle (there's variance for load changes with alternator and AC comrpessor)
Hope that's enough info to help ya out.. I've been on the juice (corn juice that is ) for a tad over 3 years now and will run it over any other fuel i can get and the best part is it's cheaper than any fuel i can get..
Now i use my water injectiojn kit pre-turbo to effectively change the compressor map and increase spoolup speed, and my nitrouse helps with sool too
