Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

I've never really had an 'official' build thread on here but I guess it is time I started one. Not to steal JD's thunder or idea, but the high gas prices (gone up 80 cents in 36 hours here because of the hurricane) have inspired me to start the onslaught toward a 50 mpg daily driver, with power steering and A/C. Eventually I’m going to throw a 14b on there to make up for the 3.25.

I found this car for $300 not running, a 93 Civic EX auto. It had great tires, and a working battery, which is what I needed at the time. Pretty much paid for its self cause I used those on another car. Anyway, I had a well seasoned d16z6 and a CX 3.25 final drive transmission lying around. Swapped the auto junk out and put the manual stuff in and I just got it running today. I still have some small details to work out like the neutral safety switch and O2 sensor, but 48 in first gear is interesting. That automatic brake pedal is way too big so I’ll have to do something about that too. I haven’t had time to go through the suspension yet so I haven’t had it on the main highway to see where the top of second is. Pretty sure a driver’s side CV joint is bad, so that will get swapped out as soon as I get a chance. So for now, I want to baseline this thing and see where I’m at just with everything stock. Then the modifications will ensue. Comments welcome.



*Pictures added*


Attachment 14621

I'm not wild about the paint on this one, but for 300 bones and hopefully darn good gas mileage, I'll take it. Be sure to check out the siliconed raidator. Quality work there, but at least it doesn't leak.


Attachment 14622

Z6 + P20/000A CX tranny + all the options. A/C P/S sun roof power windows power locks tilt wheel. Car has a ton of options, should make for a nice daily.


Attachment 14623

The interior is by far the worst part. It's like someone didn't clean the car ever. Carpet was so nasty (had mold where the heater core was leaking) I just pulled it out and haven't decided what I want to do with it yet.


Attachment 14624

A shot of the auto to manual bracket work I did. Pretty much eyeballed it, and its close enough to work. HMT > expensive conversion mounts.

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

ok

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

My ---- is going to be different, I don't have the parts or the know how on some of the topics to be able to pull off what he can. Number of efi cars I've tuned = 0. He has a huge advantage there, but I'm hoping to learn. Stock motor, stock transmission. No high compression stuff to get the efficiency up like he is doing, no hybrid transmission. This is going to be a simple, easy to repeat project in hopes that someone else might find the information useful.

It might be a common goal, but we are going about it with two totally different approaches.

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

Nope

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

---- my 95 hb gets 40mpg high way, d15 with a6 cam. I think I do better if I want to with out beating on it, and a tune from Chris :6

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

50mpg is easy.... 85 crx hf and a Z1 with higher comp... you're there. You have to keep the weight down and the compression up.

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

93 DX HB, 53 mpg is easy.........also had 121 whp and stock compression.

Yo DO NOT want the 3.25 FD unless you plan on running no higher than 4th gear.

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

My mileage figures are not impressive. The stock engine/trans combo you mentioned should beat it.

My mileage figures combined with my power figures are impressive - hell, they surprised me. I essentially replicated a fresh reman B16 swap that gets ~50 mpg, for under a grand.

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

Can I play? I should post my build on here...but i didn't think anyone would car lol...I swaped an auto Del Sol S to a VX D15z1 and trans...I get 50mpg on the Highway and 40mpg with city driving...an I have a targa top :-P

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

But Bone, I WANT a theoretical top speed of 220


You keep saying this, is it you are worried that the fuel consumption will be greater cruising in 5th than in 4th? I understand the concern that at that low of an RPM the efficiency takes a ----, but I want to see exactly what the difference is. I was planning on doing a test in 4th only then one in 5th. Then add something to increase the effective compression ratio and see the difference. Of course making boost at 2k might be a challenge.

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

I wish valves were electronically controlled instead of mechanical... I understand mechanical is a bit more reliable than electronic, but theoretically if valves were controlled by the ECU (---- vtack), wouldn't you be able to maximize efficiency? Also, while cruising, I'd *guess* you'd be able to keep the exhaust/intake valves open and cut the fuel to some of the cylinders and not lose as much power due to compression.

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

Great ideas and yes if you were able to change the valve timing and lift continuously, then you could definitely pick up some efficiency. However, I would imagine the displacement on demand is geared more toward the big v-8 boys instead of the 4 bangers. I’m not sure how well that would work, but it would be neat to try.

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

Every little bit helps. I doubt I need all 4 cylinders going down the interstate at 4000rpm. Definitely wouldn't be as helpful as using that on v8s, however I directed it at engines in general not any specific size or displacement.

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

if im not mistaking.....new bmw's already have continuous variable valve timing

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

If they came out with VTEC for the NSX, I hope they come out with some continuously variable valve timing on the new one.

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

Its existed for a long time. But just like every technology in the automotive industry, it will be years more before its implemented, IE before its profitable for auto companies to invest in. Pneumatic valves are faster though.

http://scarbsf1.com/valves/ilmor_pne...comparison.jpg

http://www.pureluckdesign.com/ferrar...lvesystem1.jpg

Once again, old tech. But 17,000rpms is FTW. O0



----, buick invented variable valve timing in the 1920's. Now damn near every mid-high end car on the market has it. fuk ur vtak. :P

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

Just fyi, 70mph with my gear setup is 2200rpm in 5th, 2700rpm in 4th. This is with 195 60 14s, and that might change. I might undersize the tires a bit to help get the rpms up and reduce the unsprung weight. I'm just going to have to do some research and see how that will change the rolling resistance. I've got a nice selection of 14s from all the cars/wheels i've bought so I should have something that will be useful lying around. Might see about some 13s too.

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

Im a little suspect of your transmission choice. jdm d15b non vtec originally dual carb motor w/ d16z6 manifold set up and si transmission was in mid 40's on a stock pm6 ecu. Car ran like total ---- with the origninal hf transmission o2 sensor codes that went away with the change to the si transmission. Also driveability with the si transmission made it worth driving. hf was a waste. Gas mileage is one thing having a car that is slower than a mini van is another.

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

Ever drive the first 3.5 powered Oddessy minivans? Turn the traction control off and prepare to giggle.

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

I'm suspect too, but I don't know until I try. It's not like people are posting builds everywhere with this shitty CX slush box. One of the other reasons that I'm using this tranny is because it's the only one I have at the moment in 1 piece that works. Also, Honda did use it for some reason. I don't know what it was but if I have to shift to second to pass on the interstate, so be it. Sort of a learning experience for all I suppose.

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

Cx/Vx are both happy cruising around under 2000rpms...the CX is a dog but at least with vtec-e on the Vx you can pass on the highway...The gears are very long...I'll tell you driving style has a lot to do with mpg, if you accelerate at a crawl, which i feel like you will with the cx trans. Atleast I can say the VX was designed to keep the revs low, when it isn't in vtec-e mode its onlying using 3 of the 4 valves per cyl (which also creates a swirl effect in the cyl) but I can crusie along all day at 1000rpms and its very happy, drop a gear...or 3 and get the revs up to 2500 and I can pass a geo, lol its actually moved fairly well for a car getting 50mpg...anyways I think I got off on a tangent, I think the trans is going to leave you out side of the efficient power band which might have you going deeper into the throttle to get up hills and etc... which is going to hurt your mpg...i think mating a DX trans to it and adopting some hypermilling techniques will net you better gains...but ---- it, you got it there throw the bitch in and prove us wrong :-P GL

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

ok?

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

Pictures are up.

I gotta get insurance and then I'm hittin the road, and maybe even the 1/8th tomorrow night.

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

I smell feces.

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

Did you buy it from a Mexican?

Those racing stripes are really awesome.

What color was the interior originally?

Guess you can't complain for $300, but ----.

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

More like mold/musty smell. I've got a bottle of Top Job and 2 bottles of febreeze ready to go. Some patience and elbow grease and I think it will turn out decent.


Once I get a turbo thrown on there the racing stripes will add some wtf factor I suppose. The interior is all brown, the black seat is the bottom part outta another honda which I use just to sit on when doing work. Comes in quite handy actually. I'm not sure if the carpet is worth putting back in. I might price a used one or just roll with out one for a while.


I've been doing some research and I think I'm going to see about adding a TD04 9B or 9G I can't remember which, or a GT12. I suppose whatever I can find cheap that is in good working order. The idea I have is any boost at crusing speed, about 2000rpm or so, will increase the effective CR. Tuning will be a key point, and I'm not sure if either of those two turbos will be building enough boost to amount to anything.

All I have to do is change out the driver's side half shaft and I'm ready for the strip tomorrow if it doesn't rain. I'll let everyone know how it does.

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

http://www.stockinteriors.com/AutoCa...10&ModelId=233


$125 Shipped. Might be worth it instead of tring to salvage what I have. I didn't realize that stuff was so cheap. Thought I'd share.

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

add a egr valve and run some lean ratios in boost at low rpm like modern 1.8t vw's do.. i dont know how lean but i know its not the normal 12:1 or so 13.5??? jd should know more about this kind of stuff as long as you have no knock and egt stay safe

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

My times at the 1/8th mile drag strip about half an hour from where I live.

Reaction .5852 (0.5 is perfect at this strip)
60' 2.5007
330' 7.1770
1/8th ET 11.0562
1/8th MPH 62.71


The setup:
Attachment 14402
Put my set of E30 wheels on there because they were the ones that are the most balanced of all the sets I own. I hadn't had them on a car yet, and they look pretty decent if you ask me.

Attachment 14403
Carpet OUT. Started cleaning the rest of the interior out. I'm really thinking about getting rid of the sound deadening as well. Less weight = better economy. Noise doesn't bother me, I build mean audio systems.

Attachment 14404
And yes the drivers side axle did get changed before I went. The CV joint was just a little dry...



I got to do 5 runs, and I tried preloading the axles on the last two. Doesn't seem that hard, and it sure feels alot better on the car. I'm just curious how well my 40 dollar stock used clutch and pressure plate will hold up when doing that a lot. Those wheels and tires have plenty of rubber on them, and I didn't even bother airing them down. But it was interesting for the first run, I just chirped the tires past the water box to get the water off, then dropped the clutch from redline. THE CAR DIDN'T BREAK TRACTION. I was like wtf, bogged like hell out of the hole. The rest of the time, I made sure I heated the 620 treadwears up enough to actually slip some off the line.

My best time with this motor and a P20/B000 in a stock CX chassis was 10.1. So basically this transmission and a little extra weight costs me a second in the 1/8th.

This transmission makes some interesting noises. Clutch in, no noise, neutral and clutch out, very faint whining/grinding sound. In first and second, it whines worse under engine braking. I'm talking a noticible whine, even over the muffler-less exhaust under power. Nothing feels bad, the car shifts just fine. Doesn't make the noise nearly as bad in higher gears. I don't know what it is, but for now I'm rolling with it. It didn't break doing redline drops, it should be okay long enough to do some MPG testing.

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

lol 15 second honda

theres turbo hondas that run the slower, look in fab forum for example most recent

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

There was a turbo Z6 eg hatch there who broke an axle on his first pass, then made 2 runs, both slower than mine. Supposedly eagle h-beams + vitaras and he did have a 63 trim on there, but the dude didn't preload, and he just straight up sucked at driving. Street tires not aired down, like 17" rotas, and when he spun in first, dude never let off to regain traction. i don't have a ton of seat time at the track, but damn, he needed help.

Also was a h22 swapped eg hatch, his best run I saw was a 9.8. I wasn't that far off his time with the other tranny and a stock Z6 with bald all seasons. I can't wait to get something turboed and maybe some slicks.

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

*UPDATE*


It's been along time comming, but the bitch is turboed. I'll get pictures soon and I'm doing a lot of reading so I can tune this thing.

Setup:
stock z6 with stock cx tranny
14b turbo with stock O2 housing
pop rivet oil restrictor
A/C and P/S kept with a log manifold
DSM 450s
PLX M-300 wideband Crome free with freelog
straight piped 2.5" exhaust
2.5" charge pipes
CDM special intercooler
DSM 1g bov
haven't come up with a solution for PCV system yet other than vented to atmosphere

currently on a basemap that I made. Idles fine but I'm not sure I'm going about it the right way in Crome. I have a bunch of questions that I'm gonna have to search for or get help from you guys with. I'm trying to figure out what spark plugs I should run, and I'm researching proper a/f ratios that I should be shooting for

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

Throw out bearing. pretty easy if you've already done the tranny swap.

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

was the same one used in my last setup, didn't cause a problem then. but i did squirt it with brake cleen and get all the old grease off it. spun fine without noise. of course new was applied. still don't think that is the problem.

also when engine braking using first or second it sounds a whole lot like reverse does with the gear whine.

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

gears are worn out. improper meshing causes gear whine

wrx's are notorious for this, and mine does it, but with no pattern. some days it does, some days it doesnt

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

quite a good possibility. the chassis i got the tranny out of had 240k on it. no real grinds when shifting either, just some gear whine.

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

well I know that I have some bosch 2+ somethingorotherbullshit spark plugs in the car now. I've found a set of NGK zfr5j 11s layin around so I think I'm going to clean them up with some sand paper and gap them to 0.044" and throw them in to tune with. I couldn't find anything colder than a 11 from NGK that would fit, anyone have any recommendations?

Re: Flash944's attack on a 50 MPG beater
 

the 11 athe the end of the part number stands for pre gapped to 1.1mm or .044" the 5 is the heat reange get some bkr6e