Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

I'm seing more and more gas stations around here switching to at least a 10% blend, it is hard to find a gas station that sells it without ethanol. Will this affect anything since it burns hotter? I'm suprized I havent seen a thread about this yet, I was just wondering if your AFR's are any different with ethanol in the gas?

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

Everyone has 10 % here. I hope it doesnt affect anything? :-X

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

All I've heard (from a different site) is that it lowers your MPG substantially.

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

That can't be right. What environmental benefit would there be to put an oxygenate in gas that causes you to burn more gas from point A to point B?

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

it is right. ethonol has less energy per volume than gasoline.

1 Gallon of Gasoline = 125,000 Btu
1 Gallon of Ethanol = 77,000 btu

10% ethanol 90% gasoline blend sits around 100,000 btu's

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

Biodiesel is more benificial than ethanol as it sits in the 120,000-140,000 btu range. Ethanol is just for farmers trying to make money on their crops.

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

Eww that explains the mileage hit I took recently. BAck to getting my gas from jersey I guess. :S

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

I read on a Mustang forum (turbomustangs.com?) that Ethanol has a much higher octane rating than regular fuel, but contains less energy as previously stated. There was also something to the effect of it eats away at steel or aluminum so in order to use the pure Ethanol fuel you have to have your car converted for it.

From the sounds of what they were saying they mostly just change fittings and hoses and ---- to materials that are Ethanol friendly.

As long as the prices are lower for the pure Ethanol fuel I could see it becoming very popular, especially since they said the octane rating on it was like 100+ IIRC. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

thats true. but more octane doesn't nessicairly equate to more power potential. More resistant to pre-ignition yes. But its also sitting around half the power of normal gasoline. So its going to take alot more fuel to get to the same power level as gasoline. I dont really see a benifit in it. Other than it being the oil comapnys soltion to the coke dealers creatine.

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

thats why cars love alcohol injection.. helps detonation... :P just dont use it daily..

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

And by diluting gas with it; the supply can be larger due to the blend; meaning less gas per gallon, which in turn burns less, meaning we (the driver) pay more, quid pro quo; more money to be made

The biodiesel practically not only saves money, but pays since some will pay to remove the grease and ---- (and you can undercut larger trucking prices; both sides win)

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

Yeah, the only problem with biodiesel is its gel point, and biodiesel is hydrophilic. At around 18ºF weather it needs to be blended with kerosene. And fuel lines and tanks have the possibility of rusting because of the small amount of water in the biodiesel. Also the water in the biodiesel cools combustion. But the water situation can be avoided. The problem with diesels is the strict particulate material laws were put on by the EPA as a means to curb diesel cars being more popular in the united states.

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

got gas today and the pump said "no ethanol" so I guess its better

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

Isn't pre-ignition (i.e. detonation) what kills a lot of engines? Even if you have to run more fuel through the engine, wouldn't you theoretically be able to run with more timing than you would a lower octane fuel?

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

yeah you make less power with more ethanol, you need a richer mixture with more ethanol and it does kill your milage. The thing i dont like about ethanol is that is corrosive as hell... like E85 bleck

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

http://www.turbomustangs.com/smf/ind...?topic=47094.0

That's what I was referring to.

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

I had to do alot of research for a FSAE team I was on (we were running E85, and we had to run a 19mm restrictor vs the 20mm for gas).

E85 IS corrosive to aluminum, but it's not that big of deal. Many people run it on stock fuel systems. It is recomended to only use it w/ hard anodized aluminum or stainless steel though. It contains less energy than gasoline, but it is an oxygenating fuel. So you can make more power with the same amount of air as a system running gasoline, though you need more fuel so the MPG drops. It burns cooler than gasoline, so you won't need as big of a radiator on a system that only runs E85. It also is cleaner than gasoline, so fuel system problems are less likely on systems that have always run gas, though if you are switching from gas you may have problems because it will break down deposits left by gas in the tank, lines (and anywhere else) and they will probably get deposited in the injectors or filter.

[/speach]

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

Having to run 10% ethanol is actually increasing gas prices. As we all know, ethanol production is limited. The fact that we need to use 10% of it in every gallon means we need to produce a lot of it. Guess what, not enough resources! So now we have a bunch of Americans at $12.00 an hour working over time which ends up increasing our gas prices any more. Nevermind that the price of oil is increasing as well. So basically we are fucked. If you are going to make me use ethanol atleast give me that E85 ---- so I can run gobs of boost on a high compression engine. This 10% ---- is worthless. I suggest people who are tuning now, run even leaner in part throttle. You should be able to run leaner AFRs more easily with ethanol.

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

if it eats away at steel and alum what the hell they gonna make the motor out of straw and mud :8

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

10% wont' do ----; it just UPS octane compared to regular gas. so be happy

and every car built since 88 sold in the US is supposed to handle AT LEAST 10% ethenol blends. most can be converted to E85 without having to swap all the fuel system components.

IF you guys would get your heads out of your asses and stop believing what some guy said on some forum and do your own research you would see that ethenol + gasoline = GOOD THING!

/edit: and if you're "noticing" a drop in millage going to 10% its your imagination. if you put in 10% and KNOW you are taking a mpg hit then bump the timing about 4 degrees and get it back.

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

My uncle (who commutes 200 miles per day) found a decrease of 2mpg (in a saturn of some kind) when going to 89 w/ ethanol from 87 w/o. You could easily install an AFC and lean it out a touch to recover that, since ethanol burns cooler it would probably be fine.

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

The 10% ethanol is just a way to prop up the family farm.

It takes more energy to make ethanol from corn than it produces in the end. :P

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

Ethanol is not an oxygenate. That one lone, lonely -OH stuck off the the side does ---- all for power production.

For a given tune, substituting 10% ethanol blends (e10??) will lose power, and run you a tad lean. Totally awesome!

quote author=krustindumm link=topic=62481.msg722175#msg722175 date=1147215590]
So you can make more power with the same amount of air as a system running gasoline, though you need more fuel so the MPG drops. It burns cooler than gasoline, so you won't need as big of a radiator on a system that only runs E85. It also is cleaner than gasoline, [/quote]

You cannot make more power from ethanol "because it is an oxygenate". You make more power for a given airmass from ethanol because it produces a higher water:contaminant ratio aka burns cleaner. Crack a book on steam turbines sometime; Heywood and Taylor have mislead a generation of IC engineers with their contradictorily footnoted and referrenced primers.

With current gas prices, it costs as much per gallon as gasoline currently does... but you need twice as much, so it's a ---- in the ass.

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

All I know is that I'm gonna buy me some land and grow me some corn.Pretty soon corn farmers will be like roleing in crazy money.Its time to become a farmer :8....... :P

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

Quiet, people will figure out my little MPG secret and why I use cheap gas!!!!!!

53 mpg rocks!

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

I wish I got 53 mpg, my ~26 mpg sucks ass

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

Retune for 16.x:1 AFRs, disable tip-in enrichment, and run lodged in open loop. 2700 ft elevation where everything's a hill, all stop and start city driving, STILL carting around a couple transmissions and a toolbox and a backseat full of debris, running the AC half the time = 32 mpg.

I'm really tempted to retune for the 17.x:1 AFRs, and clean my car. I know she'll tap 40 mpg on flatland cryuise w/ AC running as things sit now... 45 would be nicer.

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

wrong, people want a cleaner fuel and burning ethanol is cleaner and cheaper. there is a few countries that only burn ethanol and no gas mixed in, they are dependent only on corn not crude oil.

right now it does cost more to produce ethanol only because its a new trend. after a few years it will be far cheaper to produce ethanonl and burn it than to produce gas

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

Nice facts you backed that statement up with. Now wheres your facts. You need fosil fuel to produce ethanol. and i dont know of anywhere running a pure e100 fuel. some places are working on e95 but no e100. and you can make bio diesel out of just about any vegatation. where as ethanol is limited. and you cant grow corn all of the time. unless you just want to rape the ---- out of your soil. Nitrogen needs replacing.

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

100% eh? no fosil fuel needed?

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

Our conclusion is that under the vast majority of conditions, the amount of energy contained in ethanol is significantly greater than the amount of energy used to make ethanol, even if the raw material used is corn.

http://www.carbohydrateeconomy.org/l...a_Gallon_.html

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

but the real question is, do you still want your money goin over seas to other countries or do you want your money to stay over here? corn = domestic, 75% of crude = foriegn

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

Ive seen conflicting data from both sides.

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

well in the end i rather get worse mpg and burn a cleaner fuel (no crude oil just pure ethanol) than to keep supporting others countries who supply us crude. even tho i know that our country will never be crude oil free

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

Show me how it's cheaper. Best case I've seen for it, it is equivalently priced by volume, but you need twice the volume...

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

Is this the new fad?

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

new fad to pay more to fuel our cars.

to run E85 over E10, add 50-60% to your yearly fuel costs.

But it burns cleaner :(

Re: Ethanol in gasoline...how does it affect?
 

I want high energy hydrocarbon chains of high octane number readily available for a minor fee. That is all.