Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
01-10-2004, 09:48 PM
#72
0.5 BAR
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 114
Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
Originally Posted by Stealthmode
They come here by BREAKING THE LAW.
They've turned an American $10/hour job into a $6/hour job
They pay no taxes (they are under the table workers or make under $15,000/year they get it all back= no taxes)
They send their children to our schools while paying no taxes.
They have babies in our hospitals (at an amazing rate) while paying no taxes.
They collect welfare through thier "legally born U.S. children" while paying no taxes.
They shoot our police/commit crimes and run back to mexico because mexico won't send them here to face a dealth penalty (Deputy David March's killer is living freely in mexico right now)
Oh, and we get cheap labor.
Take a look at the pro's and con's of this and tell me where you stand? I'll send you an email in 5 years to let you know which computer or $3/hour illegal has since taken your job. (yes, the $/hour gets lower the more they come.)
I am a Bush supporter, but ---- his *** for this one.
ANYBODY, PLEASE TELL ME I'M WRONG. I DARE YOU!
They've turned an American $10/hour job into a $6/hour job
They pay no taxes (they are under the table workers or make under $15,000/year they get it all back= no taxes)
They send their children to our schools while paying no taxes.
They have babies in our hospitals (at an amazing rate) while paying no taxes.
They collect welfare through thier "legally born U.S. children" while paying no taxes.
They shoot our police/commit crimes and run back to mexico because mexico won't send them here to face a dealth penalty (Deputy David March's killer is living freely in mexico right now)
Oh, and we get cheap labor.
Take a look at the pro's and con's of this and tell me where you stand? I'll send you an email in 5 years to let you know which computer or $3/hour illegal has since taken your job. (yes, the $/hour gets lower the more they come.)
I am a Bush supporter, but ---- his *** for this one.
ANYBODY, PLEASE TELL ME I'M WRONG. I DARE YOU!
1. Yes, they definitely are breaking the law. But, civil disobedience is consistently the #1 catalyst for change in a repressive situation.
2. That $10 vs $6 argument is very .. questionable. Other market conditions determine the wage much more so than the influx of Mexican labour. Inflated market prices, unsustainable purchasing power, undervalued foreign currencies and production, etc.. The nature of the American economy, the same thing that makes it sooo successful, is the same thing that drove wages down and Mexicans in.
3. Last I checked, legal Americans that make less than $15,000 and have a few kids don't pay much in the way of taxes either, but also send their kids to school for free and have free babies at the county hospital.
4. As for your other arguments: sure, true. Except, the US doesn't send American citizens to Mexico either for prosecution. In fact, the US has refused to sign BILATERAL extradition treaties with ALL of its neighbours.
01-11-2004, 06:15 AM
#73
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 0
Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
Originally Posted by dropgear
Originally Posted by Stealthmode
In the interest of keeping this well balanced, I'll do as Stealthmode suggested:
1. Yes, they definitely are breaking the law. But, civil disobedience is consistently the #1 catalyst for change in a repressive situation.
How did I know you would use the word "but" in this sentence. "Yes they are breaking the law" says it all, no excuses.
2. That $10 vs $6 argument is very .. questionable. Other market conditions determine the wage much more so than the influx of Mexican labour. Inflated market prices, unsustainable purchasing power, undervalued foreign currencies and production, etc.. The nature of the American economy, the same thing that makes it sooo successful, is the same thing that drove wages down and Mexicans in.
haha, this looks like an attorney fumbling around a question. Taking one thing and calling it another. Wages are lower because you have 10-12 million people in your state willing to do a job for $3/hour. The prices haven't fallen in proportion to the wages. Call it what it is.
3. Last I checked, legal Americans that make less than $15,000 and have a few kids don't pay much in the way of taxes either, but also send their kids to school for free and have free babies at the county hospital.
Of course they do, THEY'RE AMERICANS. That's why the system was set in place. Now it's exploited to the point that most Americans would rather not go near a county hospital, because it's overun with people that arent supposed to be here in the first place. Imagine waiting in line to get treatment behind 12 or so people that shouldn't even have stepped foot in your country. I guess the whole world should have these benefits, huh?
4. As for your other arguments: sure, true. Except, the US doesn't send American citizens to Mexico either for prosecution. In fact, the US has refused to sign BILATERAL extradition treaties with ALL of its neighbours.
1. Yes, they definitely are breaking the law. But, civil disobedience is consistently the #1 catalyst for change in a repressive situation.
How did I know you would use the word "but" in this sentence. "Yes they are breaking the law" says it all, no excuses.
2. That $10 vs $6 argument is very .. questionable. Other market conditions determine the wage much more so than the influx of Mexican labour. Inflated market prices, unsustainable purchasing power, undervalued foreign currencies and production, etc.. The nature of the American economy, the same thing that makes it sooo successful, is the same thing that drove wages down and Mexicans in.
haha, this looks like an attorney fumbling around a question. Taking one thing and calling it another. Wages are lower because you have 10-12 million people in your state willing to do a job for $3/hour. The prices haven't fallen in proportion to the wages. Call it what it is.
3. Last I checked, legal Americans that make less than $15,000 and have a few kids don't pay much in the way of taxes either, but also send their kids to school for free and have free babies at the county hospital.
Of course they do, THEY'RE AMERICANS. That's why the system was set in place. Now it's exploited to the point that most Americans would rather not go near a county hospital, because it's overun with people that arent supposed to be here in the first place. Imagine waiting in line to get treatment behind 12 or so people that shouldn't even have stepped foot in your country. I guess the whole world should have these benefits, huh?
4. As for your other arguments: sure, true. Except, the US doesn't send American citizens to Mexico either for prosecution. In fact, the US has refused to sign BILATERAL extradition treaties with ALL of its neighbours.
Oh ----, I just realized something, you couldn't be too much involved with this subject, your in Canada.
If you were here in California, you would see it. You wouldn't be able to miss it.
01-11-2004, 11:36 AM
#74
3.0 BAR
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,857
Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
Oh My God. Think about what you just said. Since when have Americans been doing all of this violent crime in Mexico? Now ask yourself, how much violent crime is committed by illegal mexicans in the US? Compare those numbers next to each other and tell yourself we're not getting shafted. THE NUMBERS DON'T LIE. Did anyone do that math yet?
You make it seem like all the crime in Cali is perpetrated by illigals.Yes we have a gang problem here in Cali but most the guys you are thinking about with the bald heads ad baggy pants are 3rd to 4th generation U.S born mexicans not illegals.I grew up around them so I know.Culver City,Santa Monica,Venice.They all have WHITE gangs that help acount for Calis growing gangs and gang/drugs related crime.Like I said I know this of personal experience.Dont tell me its ok for them to be criminals couse theyre U.S citizens.My point.The problem in Cali. goes way beyond Illegals.Compton,Wats,Inglewood,wilmington,Lemert Park, all prodomanantly BLACK neighborhoods where people live below poverty level and are on welfare/foodstamps only to spend there money on drugs and having babys at county hospitals only to be raised in the cycle of poverty and drugs.Is that ok couse theyre american citizens?There is no dought Cali is a verry fucked place to live.
Now ask yourself, how much violent crime is committed by illegal mexicans in the US?
Well Show me the #s that show this illigal mexican criminal syndicates yearly crime spree totals.
01-11-2004, 12:16 PM
#75
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 0
Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
Raffi, when are you gonna learn? I in no way said that all illegals go out and commit crime. Think about how many Americans probably commit violent crimes in mexico. Probably few. Now, think about the 10-12 million illegals in our state.
Americans visiting Mexico= Mostly Tourists
Mexicans coming to US= 10-12 million.
Not all of them commit crimes, but look at who's visiting mexico, and tell me all those tourists are out "bashing heads" in Mexico. It would only take a small percentage of the illegals to commit crimes and they would probably be over the top on those "lunatic tourists"
On top of the violent crime, how many more cops do we need on the streets to patrol the 10-12 million people that have come here illegaly? That's money that should have been spent on the deficit or something that benefits America. It's their tax dollars anyway.
Like we talked about yesterday, I'm here giving my opinion based on the facts that I know. I know the government is the cause of all of these problems. So it's not anyone's fault but thiers.
Americans visiting Mexico= Mostly Tourists
Mexicans coming to US= 10-12 million.
Not all of them commit crimes, but look at who's visiting mexico, and tell me all those tourists are out "bashing heads" in Mexico. It would only take a small percentage of the illegals to commit crimes and they would probably be over the top on those "lunatic tourists"
On top of the violent crime, how many more cops do we need on the streets to patrol the 10-12 million people that have come here illegaly? That's money that should have been spent on the deficit or something that benefits America. It's their tax dollars anyway.
Like we talked about yesterday, I'm here giving my opinion based on the facts that I know. I know the government is the cause of all of these problems. So it's not anyone's fault but thiers.
01-11-2004, 01:21 PM
#77
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 0
Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
Thats what I was about to say....
Politics and cars just dont mix... unless it has something to do with it specificly... but it doesnt so were only gonna get pissed at each other because our opinions and ideas are going to differ.
Lets just drink some beer... smoke a fatty and chill...
Politics and cars just dont mix... unless it has something to do with it specificly... but it doesnt so were only gonna get pissed at each other because our opinions and ideas are going to differ.
Lets just drink some beer... smoke a fatty and chill...
01-11-2004, 01:44 PM
#78
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 0
Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
Despite how I convey what I feel, I'm not mad. I feel strongly about a couple things in life and I just try really hard to make people see it the way I see it. Not that my OPINION is the right one. Its the facts of the subject I am trying to relay to any of you, and maybe you'll say, "I see what he's saying". But I know you can never convince everyone. I think I've said all I can at this point. Politics is too big of a subject to get upset with a friend about. It won't happen Raffo. 
-Steve
-Steve
01-11-2004, 04:03 PM
#79
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 114
Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
I guess as an Polish-immigrant-fresh-off-the-boat-Canadian, I have an outsiders perspective to your situation. But man, this isn't a new story. Ask a Dutchman about what he thinks about Muslim Turks, or any Pole about what he thinks about Gypsies. It's the same story all over the world.
My personal belief is that EVERYONE should be given the benefit of the doubt and a chance to change their life for the better in a new country. My family and I are direct recepients of this kind of opportunity here in Ontario, so I definitely want to ------ the good word ...
My personal belief is that EVERYONE should be given the benefit of the doubt and a chance to change their life for the better in a new country. My family and I are direct recepients of this kind of opportunity here in Ontario, so I definitely want to ------ the good word ...
01-13-2004, 12:31 PM
#80
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,703
Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
From what I've heard on the news in the last few days, companies are going to have the option of hiring ilegal immigrants to work for them legally if the company feels they are worth it. They have to be somehow recommended by that company to work for them, so it's not like anyone can walk in and get a Job. Also it's supposed to be for up to two 3 year periods not a lifetime. After that you are supposed to go back if you have not fix your legal issues. Of course there's always ways to fool the system, but if it's something like that, then it might work for our economy.
Now about the people coming here to commit crimes, sell drugs, then think they deserve everything because they are here, but don't want to learn the language, work hard, make a better life for themselves, they should go back where they came from. I'm talking any race europeans, hispanics, anyone.
But that's not the type of people this Bush plan is targeting. It's the hardworking people that really want to better themselves.
Now about the people coming here to commit crimes, sell drugs, then think they deserve everything because they are here, but don't want to learn the language, work hard, make a better life for themselves, they should go back where they came from. I'm talking any race europeans, hispanics, anyone.
But that's not the type of people this Bush plan is targeting. It's the hardworking people that really want to better themselves.
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