Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

Look this is wrong.I wanted to keep out of this one but I cant.As we all know Im a beener and Im against this.Why you ask?...well couse no one wants them here.these people get beat up on the streets for being here.Thousnads die trying to cross the border every year.Illigals do the work no one wants to do but everyone complais about them being here.yes some are criminals but white people are ---- bags too.Oh dont tell me Timothy Mcbeigh acted alone......Oh wait he must of hired a bunch of illegals to build the bomb for him ::)


No matter how long a white man complains that they have been out of work they are not going to go out and apply for the same job that an illigal is couse the white man holds his stranderds to high.AND THATS THE ------- TRUTH!Complain all you wnat but some one has to do the shitty jobs that you(the white man) wont do becouse you get tired easy,or it too hot out,or its inhumane to work that way,or its against union standerds.

Thats fine kick out all the illegal mexicans...next theyll be trucking in people from the middle east to do these jobs then youll be asking...."why is my burito ticking?".

---- all this political talk...lets get back to the naked chicks posts.

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

That's ------- funny. I moved to Florida about 7 years ago from Puerto Rico. Keep in mind Puerto Rico is just like a state but were are not one yet, we are american born citizens and don't have to go thru all of that imigration crap, we are as american as anyone else.

Now I agree with the fact that he is only doing this for votes. But you need to agree with some of us, legal us workers will NOT do what illegal workers do. Maybe the construction and industry work, but do you think anyone on this site will go and pick oranges, cotton, or any other product for $5.00/hour. NO. Even if they paid $40/hour, I know I wouldn't do it. And there's no way they will pay more. So I think we need that type of worker.

But then we come to this other problem. As soon as they become legal citizens or whatever, Do you think they'll keep doing all of those crappy jobs, when they can get paid the same working at, I don't know McDonalds, or WalMart. Hell NO.

There are bad people in any race, mine, yours, any. We get all the good and the bad, that's how this country was founded with immigrants, but legal immigrants, and at some point in history your family came here looking for a better life.

With that said I think they should control the flow of people coming in. I don't think they should get a break at all. If you came in ilegally, you should go back where you came from. If you are here legally, welcome we all did at some point, enjoy. But it doesn't matter how much they try to control it there's always going to be some ilegal people working in the USA. That's just reality

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

I guess I'm kind of off the subject but, how can you get a licnece to drive a car if you can't even read the STREETSIGNS!!!! I've seen more assholes get out a traffic violations because they aren't american citizens....example; man gets pulled over for speeding..has NO LICENCE, NO INSURANCE, NO REGISTRATION, AND IS NOT AN AMERICAN CITIZEN and drives away free because it's too much trouble to make him pay for it!! For fucks sake, he probly stole the car!! It makes me sick!!! Take the car and send him out of the country!! "If you break the law, you can get away with it" that's what the message sounds like to me...first traffic, then what's next? Rob a 7-eleven, walk away free? If your anren't supposed to be here GET THE ---- OUT!!!!!!!!!!! >:( >:( >:(

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

i'd do the shitty jobs that illegals do if I could get payed a normal wage for them, but i can't. when i was in high school and needed a minimum wage job i would have killed to pick strawberries. instead i just didn't have a ------- job.

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

Bahahaha!id like to see you out in fresno in 115 degree weather bent over all day picking strawberies for minimum wage.

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

I post about what is going on here in Colorado and we don’t have strawberries or what not.. We have corn and wheat. Im not bitchen about the immigrants that LEGALY crossed the boarder but it’s the illegal ones that drive me nuts, they strut around like they own the ------- place.. At least here they do.

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

How can you tell who is who.Do they wear tags that say "illegal" or "legal".Wich one am I wearing...guess..lol ;D


I understand your frustration.But its allways easy to blame someone else.The USA is a buisness and this seems like a buisness decision.More profits for comercial/industrioal buisnes owners by paying lower wages and keeping product pricing the same and the shaft for the american people.

You know what though?...think what every states economy would be like withought the tax revenue that illegals put in.Everytime they buy something at some store they pay local/state taxes just like everyone else.Take that away and states in crisis like here in Cali would go bakrupt.

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

Staying out of this one ::) Too much debate for me!

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

The fact that I work in construction along side some of these people just shows that we already have enough of them to do the jobs Americans don't want. They're already trickling into the jobs we will do, like mine. That goes to show there are already too many of them.

And legalizing them so they can get jobs at Mcdonalds and Walmart isn't a good idea either. That would just mean that the customers will now have to speak Spanish to communicate with the employees, and the young high school minimum wage kid will have to learn spanish to work at Walmart. Who's really getting shafted with this? ???

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

Come on Steve we know that the reason "they" as you call them work in construction is couse they can work circles around most "white" people in the trades.These people work hard.If they didnt no one would hire them.You know thats the truth!Im in the construction trade too and I see this ---- all the time.1 whit man 15 mexicans.It works for the companies.Thats how these construction companys make millions of dollars each year.Its not "there" fault that the white man want to hire them.

And as for the youth of america...there a bunch of lazy ass fucks.I fire at least 2to 3 kids(18-20 y.o) a month.They complain about digging,they want to do all the easy stuff,they come in late and going to glamis on the weekend is more important than coming in to work on friday.There is a problem in america that streches further than "them".Its just allways easier to blame some one else :-\.

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

Raffi, your point is irrellivent in the fact that we could hire some guys to work from a third world country to come here and work for $4 a day. That's not the point. I know what your saying, but what I'm saying is the amount of cheap labor we are getting out of these people doesn't come close to the extra tax dollars it costs us to take care of them. 4.6 BILLION a year. Tell me that's worth saving a couple dollars on an hourly wage, when your company is forking it out in another area. You have to associate the two, otherwise people start making points like yours. lol.

The youth in America isn't perfect, but the kids that still need jobs to make it in thier own country get labelled as "lazy fucks" because you have them working next to "third world citizens" that think $6/hour is a fucken gold mine. That would be like making you work next to a slave laborer in indonesia and calling you a lazy ---- because you won't work as hard as them for $0.30 a day. Oh, we'll hold this contest in YOUR HOME COUNTRY as well.

And while your at it, keep putting quotations anytime you see me use the words them,us,you,they, and whoever else you can think of to make me look like "A typical racist white guy."

If you really want to get any points in this argument, go to my first point and start proving any of those points wrong. (What part of "you cannot win this argument" didn't you understand) ;D

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Ok, that was some serious ownage Stealthy. Good ------ job sir! ;D

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[quote=Whitey

I'm not mexican but, being in the US army for 6 years the mexican soldiers are some of the best we have, they are dedicated to what they do, I can see why bush would do things to help them, I think most immigrants do a better job for America than most Americans, who aggree?


]
These mexicans are ruining America. Reading PA (where I go to school) has now become 60% mexican and suprise suprise its now the 25th most dangerous city in the US. The city isn't that big and its more dangerous that any part of Phily.

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

well sice we jabajawd on the phone and got most of our politacal views squared away ill post this so that dumb asses like CAP dont think you owned me...

My point is this.As americans we alow this to happen.Big companies love money but your right they dont see the other end of the picture.the part where it is costing us alot of money to suport peple that havent earned the right to live in this great country.I get taxed up the ass at the end of the year.Why?So I pay for all the free ---- they get.But my point is that its not just them.Its all lazy fucks who decide to abuse the system.No one is going to turn down something thats free.I wouldnt.Black people,white people and mexicans,all who are lazy and dont want to work are the problem.We have to look at certain parts of the country where mexicans arent allowed like Tenesee and Arkansas where there are a lot of people below poverty level that could work but wont.Why?I dont know.Its a nation wide problem and its costing me money:'(.


The youth of america...well the ones I generalized as lazy fucks are working side by side with other hard working white Americans who produce,and give a hard worked 8 hour day.In my Union there are no illigals.There is no way for them to get in.So like I said the people I use to measure these "lazy fucks" is with other hard working "white" individuals.

The quotation thing was couse everyone refers to illigals as "them" as if they are a different breed of humans when its just a different culture and a way of life all together.

I respect your point of view Steveee.... :-*

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

Just for everyone else, me and Raffi talk on the phone quite a bit, and we just got done talking about this. But just in case you were wondering Cap, I did own him. (I always have)LOL haha Raffo. ;D ;D 8) :D

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

I got news for you dumb fucks wanting to talk about how bad immigrants are for the U.S.: YOU ALL ARE IMMIGRANTS!!! In case you did not pay attention in high school: none of your ancestors "came" from America, none of your ancestors is an "original American", all of your ancestors came from all parts of Europe, from Asia, from anywhere in this world, seeking to escape political, racial and religious and cultural oppression! And by the way: WHO made this country what is is today? Was Einstein American? Don't think so!
Who's giving their life in Irak for this country, what is stands for - and for guys like you, every day? The Army is not white, it's a "melting pot", there are Whites, Blacks, Mexicans, Puertoricans, Jamaicans, Cubans, Haitians, Asians, European... You wanna talk about who's doing good for the U.S.? Get the facts straight first!!!
(Rudebuoy's wife).

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

Hey you dip ----(rude boys wife ;)) before you talk your "your not from america" crap learn geography.I am a mexican and even though the spaniards came over and raped the aztec and mayan women to create our breed of mexicans technacillay I am originaly from america.You see there are these 2 continants called North and South America.My ansesters originated in the North American continent in wich Mexico is a part of so technacilaay I am an American from Mesoamerican decent.....you want the DNA test?

disregard this if you werent talking to me :P

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

What the ---- is up with you guys letting your wives get on your names lately? First off you spell iraq wrong, secondly you are missing the point and are setting the arguement back we all realize we our imigrants read onyx and steathmodes posts they have the facts.

Wrong half my ancestors are native americans and in case you didnt pay attention in high school they didnt come for any of those reasons they were nomadic tribes that moved where the food was and settled in different parts of north america

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

douche my friend you are verry correct

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

I guess you are the dip ---- here! No, I was not talking to you, as a matter of fact I was trying to take your side, but I guess you can't read! Also, it's not about Mexicans immigrating to North America, this whole argument is about Mexicans immigrating to the U.S. Got the difference?! and also other immigrant come to the united states to live a better live, work harder than all AMERICANS and get no respect or support from America, when americans are collecting welfare, immigrants are sweeping your streets for nothing, immigrants dont get ----. but obviously I hope this subject just about illegals. I'm German my Husband is Jamaican, because of our education we get a lot of good jobs but the country whites hate us for tha, my husband just got his American citezenship, and he was told by a confederate flying hillbilly he did not deserves it because we are comming to his country and taking his people jobs.

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

well i dont need your side.I think were not talking about how we got here.Were talking about all having to live here with it being the way it is now.Who cares who got here firt.Were all americans here and this topic affects all of us now not when our ancesters were neanderthals.Dipshit ;D

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

I just think it sucks that people come here illegally and get treatment like this. They are breaking the law by crossing the border and then disrespect this nation. It's just frustrating and then companies like wal-mart who just got in trouble last month for hiring illegals. This is why corporate america needs to be put in place. It's funny because in 20 years lets hope we still have a middle class but you will be able to shop at wal mart and save a nickel on a pair of socks. This is where people who really want change go in front of your local Wal Mart and hand out flyers saying do you want to shop at a store that won't hire you because your an america citizen and require a liveable wage. I'm sure alot of people will re-think about there choice in stores.

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

[quote=d16z64life

first of all my wife is not a dip ----! she have drift off the subject for minute,but it does not change the fact immigrants does not get any recognition for what we do for this country of the USA, I am a soldier and I am proud of what I do for the United States America, but guess what? I'm limited to the job I can do because I was not born in america. and I'm still proud to be who I am, defending your/our constitution (IMMIGRANT)

]
well i dont need your side.I think were not talking about how we got here.Were talking about all having to live here with it being the way it is now.Who cares who got here firt.Were all americans here and this topic affects all of us now not when our ancesters were neanderthals.Dipshit ;D

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

dude your wife came on here with major attitude...thats not cool.Sorry if I called her a dipshit but that was uncalled for no matter what her point was.

Thank you for busting your ass for our country.

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

I talked to her about that already that she was off the subject, but you would be offended if this type of subject is in your face everday, no problem! just being straight forward.

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

I've read most of your posts, and I'm somewhat upset at the selfishness many of you exhibit. You have a great country, a very wealthy country, one who has a very broken relationship with one of your greatest partners (referring to Mexico).

Illegal immigrants support the manufacturing and farming economies off soooo many small communities from Iowa to California, all in the name of leaving the piss poor conditions they want to leave behind. So, instead of taking advantage of this willing, inexpensive, and skilled work force, you'd rather imprison them? Kick them out? Kill them? This is one of the best things Bush has done since the beginning of his term, simply because it creates a reasonable way for honest Mexican labourers to enter the US in search of work. It also forces companies to treat these workers like legal employees.

The US (like Canada) is built on immigration. The US (like Canada) does not have a sufficient birth rate to maintain it's workforce or population. The US (like Canada) has a problem with illegal immigration (Canada's problem is with China). Share the wealth boys ..

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

I can't believe how blind most people are about this subject. It's not about people trying to have a better life, we all are.
These are the numbers you should be concerned with:

The job vs. the wage. Now, then, and in the future
The taxes vs. social services that we pay. Now, then, and in the future.

Yes, there's illegals that are good people and some of them may have done great things, but do the fucken math and tell me you want to see the United States become the equivilent of what mexico is today. There's a reason that they're leaving mexico in the first place. Just do the fucken math.

Go to my first post, and attempt to overturn ANYTHING I said.
I hope anyone that comes on here saying what a great education they got, is prepared to use somewhat correct spelling and grammer. It would probably help for you to take an economics class as well. ::)

Oh yeah, and COULD YOU PLEASE DO THE FUCKEN MATH!!!!! >:( ???

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

Illegal=bad......legal=good......

Any questions?

-bignig

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

The rest of our relatives got papers to get into this country going over rat infested, overcrowded boats living in worse poverty that they do in Mexico. Do it legally and I don’t have a problem. But when you REFUSE to learn English, follow our laws, and be kind to who has been here first.. You need to go back to Mexico. There is NO excuse for this. If your here legally and contributing to society and following our laws ETC then welcome. Remember back in the day if you were illegal then you were just shot. I think this is a far more civil way of doing things.

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

the worst part is refusing to learn and speak english...

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

Exactly. Now they can all be legal.

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

In the interest of keeping this well balanced, I'll do as Stealthmode suggested:

1. Yes, they definitely are breaking the law. But, civil disobedience is consistently the #1 catalyst for change in a repressive situation.

2. That $10 vs $6 argument is very .. questionable. Other market conditions determine the wage much more so than the influx of Mexican labour. Inflated market prices, unsustainable purchasing power, undervalued foreign currencies and production, etc.. The nature of the American economy, the same thing that makes it sooo successful, is the same thing that drove wages down and Mexicans in.

3. Last I checked, legal Americans that make less than $15,000 and have a few kids don't pay much in the way of taxes either, but also send their kids to school for free and have free babies at the county hospital.

4. As for your other arguments: sure, true. Except, the US doesn't send American citizens to Mexico either for prosecution. In fact, the US has refused to sign BILATERAL extradition treaties with ALL of its neighbours.

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

I thought about small towns in America with like 3 mexican families in the town, and I wouldn't think this is such a bad idea. I would probably know the families and say, "thier just some hard working people". Sure give them something. But, you have to realize I live in California were this ---- is so out of hand, it has to be stopped. I think we have more of a tolerance for the bullshit that illegal immigrants have brought to our state, we just don't recognize it because we live here, and we expect it. Some of you back east folks and non big city people would be sick to your stomachs if you saw whats going on. Truely sick.

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

Like I told you yesterday you are generalizing all Illegals are criminals.

You make it seem like all the crime in Cali is perpetrated by illigals.Yes we have a gang problem here in Cali but most the guys you are thinking about with the bald heads ad baggy pants are 3rd to 4th generation U.S born mexicans not illegals.I grew up around them so I know.Culver City,Santa Monica,Venice.They all have WHITE gangs that help acount for Calis growing gangs and gang/drugs related crime.Like I said I know this of personal experience.Dont tell me its ok for them to be criminals couse theyre U.S citizens.My point.The problem in Cali. goes way beyond Illegals.Compton,Wats,Inglewood,wilmington,Lemert Park, all prodomanantly BLACK neighborhoods where people live below poverty level and are on welfare/foodstamps only to spend there money on drugs and having babys at county hospitals only to be raised in the cycle of poverty and drugs.Is that ok couse theyre american citizens?There is no dought Cali is a verry fucked place to live.

.Tell me how much.It cant be more than what blacks and whites account for.Are you counting not paying income taxes and getting welfare as a crime couse the south is filled with blacks and whites that could work but dont.Oh but theyre U.S citizens.Bullshit!I pay too much in taxes every year to have that be acceptible.

Well Show me the #s that show this illigal mexican criminal syndicates yearly crime spree totals.

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

Raffi, when are you gonna learn? I in no way said that all illegals go out and commit crime. Think about how many Americans probably commit violent crimes in mexico. Probably few. Now, think about the 10-12 million illegals in our state.

Americans visiting Mexico= Mostly Tourists
Mexicans coming to US= 10-12 million.

Not all of them commit crimes, but look at who's visiting mexico, and tell me all those tourists are out "bashing heads" in Mexico. It would only take a small percentage of the illegals to commit crimes and they would probably be over the top on those "lunatic tourists" ::)

On top of the violent crime, how many more cops do we need on the streets to patrol the 10-12 million people that have come here illegaly? That's money that should have been spent on the deficit or something that benefits America. It's their tax dollars anyway.
Like we talked about yesterday, I'm here giving my opinion based on the facts that I know. I know the government is the cause of all of these problems. So it's not anyone's fault but thiers.

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ok,ok well leave it at that.I dont want our difference in political views to affect us being friends.Let it be known that in no way do I think your racist.

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

Thats what I was about to say....

Politics and cars just dont mix... unless it has something to do with it specificly... but it doesnt so were only gonna get pissed at each other because our opinions and ideas are going to differ.

Lets just drink some beer... smoke a fatty and chill...

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Despite how I convey what I feel, I'm not mad. I feel strongly about a couple things in life and I just try really hard to make people see it the way I see it. Not that my OPINION is the right one. Its the facts of the subject I am trying to relay to any of you, and maybe you'll say, "I see what he's saying". But I know you can never convince everyone. I think I've said all I can at this point. Politics is too big of a subject to get upset with a friend about. It won't happen Raffo. ;) -Steve

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

I guess as an Polish-immigrant-fresh-off-the-boat-Canadian, I have an outsiders perspective to your situation. But man, this isn't a new story. Ask a Dutchman about what he thinks about Muslim Turks, or any Pole about what he thinks about Gypsies. It's the same story all over the world.

My personal belief is that EVERYONE should be given the benefit of the doubt and a chance to change their life for the better in a new country. My family and I are direct recepients of this kind of opportunity here in Ontario, so I definitely want to ------ the good word ...

Re:Bushes Immigrant plan...... can-o-worms
 

From what I've heard on the news in the last few days, companies are going to have the option of hiring ilegal immigrants to work for them legally if the company feels they are worth it. They have to be somehow recommended by that company to work for them, so it's not like anyone can walk in and get a Job. Also it's supposed to be for up to two 3 year periods not a lifetime. After that you are supposed to go back if you have not fix your legal issues. Of course there's always ways to fool the system, but if it's something like that, then it might work for our economy.

Now about the people coming here to commit crimes, sell drugs, then think they deserve everything because they are here, but don't want to learn the language, work hard, make a better life for themselves, they should go back where they came from. I'm talking any race europeans, hispanics, anyone.

But that's not the type of people this Bush plan is targeting. It's the hardworking people that really want to better themselves.