Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

ok, so after this weeks events you guys have been seeing me whine about, I am going to build the bottom end of my B16. The plan is to get some CP pistons, but I may get the tuner toys pistons if they turn out to be good. I want to get some forged rods also...not sure on teh brand yet.

Who makes the better forged B16A pistons and rods? I have seen CPs take detonation like crazy and not have a scratch. Just wondering if there are any better for close to the same price or less.

What would be more worth my while? Block guard or block filler?

What else should be done to make this block near indestructable; besides getting a sleeved dartn block?

My goal is to get at least 400whp after the build and new setup. Gotta take out the C6 Z06 >:D

I want this power level to be RE-LI-ABLE. so, whatever it takes for thatr to happen, post it up. (besides block guard if possible)

Thanks for the input guys!

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

I would not worry about supporting the sleeves, just havae someone that knows how to tune, tune your car. So many people are making way over 500 whp on stock sleeves, ----, just the other day i saw someone make like 641? on stock sleeves. thats crazy.

CP's are decent pistons, loud pistons but decent, if you want a reliable setup i would definatly go with eagle rods and Endyne roller wave pistons (spendy at 563 plus shipping) but they are worth every penny. they are VERY quiet.

Remember to size your bearings right.

Tuning is Key

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

Joseph Davis tunes my car, and I have every confidence inhis ability.

Stock sleeves can hold that much power? How much boost is this setup running? I'm prolly gonna need an SC61 at 25psi to reach my goals. or maybe something bigger at a lower pressure. Any suggestions on the turbo for the new goals? I want 9.5:1 pistons,but 9:1 will be acceptable I think.

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

sorry it was 654whp and 467 torq on stock sleeves

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1355442

that was on 28 psi

JD is a great choice for tuner.

my friend nick made 420 whp @8800 with his b16 at 19 psi on pump gas stock sleeves.. dont remember the turbo off of the top of my head and hes in mexico on a cruise or else i'd call and ask.


How much money are you willing to spend on the turbo? and just a quick FYI a CCA intercooler wont push much more then 360whp i have tried and tried. the intake temps start getting really hot.. the cheap ebay 24x12x3 intercoolers are really good for the 200 dollar price tag, stefan (98ctr) made 575 on one..

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

this build will be over teh next several months, so anywhere from 700 to hopefully not more than a grand for the turbo. You talkin abotu the CCA 8" when you said that? Good lookin out, I Was wanting that fmic....What are your recomebdations on teh fmic? I Was looking at a 9x3x31 fmic on ebay a week or so ago. it was like 180 shipped.

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

the CCA intercoolers are only tube and fin.....i'd get one of the ebay 12'' high bar and plates.

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

well, i would like to keep some of my bumper support. I believe 10" would be the biggest I could go without getting rid of it.

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

just put the intercooler outside of the front of your car and you can keep all of your bumper support :y

and start a new jdm trend at the same time.

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

Haha. This thread is giving Chris the exact opposite advice in re IC's he got in his IC thread....

I think the refusal to go over 10" IC due to bumper support is really a non-issue. If you remove the bumper support, the bumper cover supports itself and you aren't cutting any of the pieces and butchering the car - you can go back stock. Given what the vehicle is becoming... I hope you don't think the bumper support is going to save your life. Also, in 95% of parking lot fender benders and normal accidents with other drivers... the bumper support doesn't do anything. Refer to the 1,001 pictures of deceased CRX owner's rides, where the other vehicle drove up over the hood and took out the passenger compartment. If the upper portion of the frame being driven over didn't tweak the frame rails too much, I suspect the bumper supports in some of those cars are virginal...

You need to worry about a ten point cage (not a roll bar). Hell, stock CRX owners should.

This is where I disagree. For identical core sizes, tube/fin is far superior to bar/plate, *especially* the tube/fin units with the high density of internal fins. Referrence the PWR vs whatever brand it was tube/fin vs bar/plate thread on HT where Full-Rice Geoff had his ass handed to him because he insisted the lesser pressure drop bar/plate units were superior - flow is nothing when you are directly manipulating temps. hp per psi = LIES, so line right up and start forking out thousands and thousands of dollars...

That being said, Jason's GTi-R Sentra runs one. 18X12X3" core, 3" inlets, and at near-300 whp on 90 degree days the inlet endtank is hot and the outlet endtank is chilly. If you fill the front end of a CRX with a budget bar/plate unit, I'm pretty sure it will handle 45 lbs of air.

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

FYI, I'd go with the epoxy. Hot tank the block before you pour it.

If you want someone else to assemble the engine, quality street/strip porting, etc, I can probably get you in and out with the local machinist for a good price. Paul's built a number of 300-450 whp engines, from my SOHC to Randy's K20. If you want to DIY... get someplace *clean* and dust free to do it. With the bodyshop guys I pal around with and have shopspace with, that is impossible. That's half the reason I had Paul do my SOHC; I'm no master engine builder but one isn't required. You aren't dealing with something that needs a total rework and lots of wierd stuff done to it.

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

...I thought it was just common knowledge that bar and plate designs were much more efficient than tube and fin

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

Jo, if you could get me some sort of estimate on some head work, and assembly of my bottom end, that would be hella nice. I may just bring the motor up tehre, have them get the measurements on teh pistons/cylinders, then order the pistons. titanium retainers, and stainless valves may be in order here....

you think my gsr cams will help me or hinder me beyond 400whp? If hinder is the case, what type of cam should I go with?

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

ITR cams are awesome for boost

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

Bar/plate *flow* a lot better, but efficient? Nope. They don;t have enough internal surface area to be as good a heat exchanger as "the equivalent" tube/fin.

Yup, with ITR/GSR LMAs... otherwise, fear for your B16 LMAs.

Chris, check your PMs!

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

Never have I had a problem with stock b16 lma's unless going over 12.3~ lift

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

Just did some research and you're right! ;)

I'm still gettin my treadstone bar/plate though.

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

So apparently, Jeff has enough confidence in aasutocrhome turbos to putone on his customers car, so How about this turbo? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...MakeTrack=true

Its either gonna be this or a precision SC34 equivalent.

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

i wanna put that turbo on my mustang

or one of the super T70s

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

Every SSAC turbo I've seen was lag-city. Even the T3/T04 knockoffs.

Wes' CRX with the LS/VTEC and T70 is all fun, but he sprays a sixty shot to get it to spool on the street so that slow, stupid ---- doesn't pull him seven cars before he starts pulling on them.

T70 on an H22 will probably work out alright, though. I get to find out as soon as Dave finishes the IC piping for Steve-o's car!

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

How ironic. :P ANSWER YOUR PMS Jospeh lol or clean out your voice system on the cell phone ;D

or call me back :y
please?

Pete

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

I thought I did reply, Pete. ???

Damn unreliable stolen wireless..

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

No replies here at all. New boost controller is home and just wanted to get an appointment :'(

Sorry for whoring your thread Chris :D

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

no problem n00b!! :1 :8

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

Just buy reliable and well tested parts and don't take any short cuts on the assembly. Get all the machine work done first so you can get all your engine specs and will know what size pistons, rings, and brns to buy. Pay close attention to all torqe and clearance specs and follow manufacturers procedures accordinly upon assembly and break in and do not under any condition break your engine in with synthetic oil unless you just don't want your rings to seat. I have cp pistons and the perform great and are very loud but I've read many good reviews on them and the price is right. I've only put around 7 to 8k on them so my full review will not take place until i've put 35k+ on them. I'm also rocking the eagle rods.

JD tunning is great and necessary for any turbo engine build. Without JD tunning you might as well have kept her stock. I'm kissing jd's ass by the way because I want partial boost.

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

haha partial boost pwns you and time pwns joey. :S

I think I will be going with wiseco 9.5:1 and eagle H beams or tunertoys h beams. Block filler will be done instead of block guard. titanium retainers, and dual exhaust valve springs. Maybe some P&P work, I would like to get teh crank polished and balanced also. All new seals, bearings, gaskets all over teh motor. Tear down started yesterday. I will pull the head off on my next day off work.

Has anybody ever heard of some kind of bearing that is supposed to have a coned surface and prodeuces less friction and stress on teh motor? Black bearings or something like that? A friend mentioned it to me the other night...

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

the term "black" is refering to the color code of the brng. Honda codes their bearing sizes with a color, like red, yellow, brown. I am using clevite rod bearings and honda main bearings. I prefer OEM honda. Honda has very good bearings, not too many aftermarket companies have a research and development program as advanced as Honda Motor Company. OEM performance usually ownes aftermarket when comparing apples to apples.

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

get the eagle rods that are recut to use GSR bearing and then use K20 bearings, they seam to be the best of the bunch. Thats what i'm doing on a friends car (got the rods from honda tech user itunedusa.com)

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

It's a D-series sized rod bearing, and is why the K-series spit rods left and right.

Last I knew, the K-guys were trying to run the wider H-series bearing to prevent low-mileage no-reason rod-bukkake.


And, yeah... Chris, Josh.... I suck.

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

Hate to bring this back up, but what would you consider as "the equivelent" in tube/fin intercoolers? Basically whats a good brand of tube/fin intercoolers that hold their own vs. bar and plate?

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

take your time dude, the car is down til next week

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

chris tell pete to just give me his greddy boost controller :P

and when ya'll go see JD i'ma go with you. i need my car tuned :(

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

lol no its a gsr/k20 bearing (they are the same sizes just different coating) and the reason k's spin bearins is because of the oiling issues they have, but can get around it from running a wider bearing. I have dont so much research on the k series wagon, heh, you all know i'm almost there.

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

Really? Because RLZ says it's a D-bearing.

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

so, should I go with ACL bearings or oem?

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

thats when you do offset ground cranks ;-)

Re: Building my first bottom end. Want some advice.
 

Plenty of people using ACLs with no troubles.

I've laid my hands on a couple $$$ builds running cranks turned 0.010-0.020" under running King Alecular bearings.

B-series don't have oilling problems like some engines, you get it close enough and she'll be fine.