Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

http://www.vincentfurniture.com/phot...d_1[1].jpg

http://www.vincentfurniture.com/phot...1_1[1].jpg


I got my welder running! I am now going to make some serious HMT up and down pipe action. This turbo is essentially a GT30 feeding a M62 supercharger. Should make 20 psi by 4000 rpm! The word is should though....

But its gonna be fun!


I will update as I go.

oh yeah... 2.2 supercharged subaru legacy currantly, getting the turbo, shooting for 20 plus psi.....

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

oh wow, i didnt know you were on here. sick!

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

whos who and whats running what

semi curious about what youre planing

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

mcdanial?

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

See the area above the red tube on the left side? Thats where I am sticking the turbo. Then see the air filter into the supercharger? That will be replaced with another intake that is aluminium and will fit perfect right to the turbo out....

http://www.vincentfurniture.com/phot...setupNOV24.jpg

I will be installing a water injection setup right after the turbo, pre-supercharger, to cool the charge before it enters the SC. I am going to be trying the current pulley setup, but may have to step it down. The wastegate of the turbo is about 16psi as I tested it....

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

it might just be me, but I'm not understanding this at all...u say ur gonna feed your supercharger with the turbo...lol...what is gonna feed your turbo?? I'm not tryin' to clown or flame u or anything, I'm just seriously curious...u are bolting the turbo to your exhaust manifold right?? ME PERSONALLY, I would just try to find a way to run that turbo by itself, you didn't list any specs but it looks huge, but that could just be the picture...

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

OH, u did say it was a GT30...yeah, I'd lose that supercharger and replace it with that turbo...

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

turbo is bolted up as normal, engine>mani>turbo. then, from the compressor, he's gona cool it, then feed the compressed air to the sc, then to the engine.

make sense now? its not that complicated.

but I agree with you, ditch the sc and go all out with the turbo.

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

CspecRun is right.

As for getting rid of the SC...... First I want to do it and see what happens.

Then depending upon the results, I will or will not get rid of the supercharger. Or... I will invest in a bypass system that would allow the SC to spool the turbo, then when it gets to 12 psi, jump to the turbo alone.

Originally my idea was fine and dandy for a smaller turbo. But I simply lucked out and got this new big ass turbo instead.....

Just waiting to get time right now....

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

The problem with twin charging is you net the efficiency drops of both compressors. 60% efficient turbo X 55% efficient blower = 33% efficiency. In the real world you don't worry a whole lot about the variance between 75% sweet spot on GT-equivalent compressors and the 60% they hit when you max them out, but a drop to 33% needs a lot of coolant to overcome knock, and you aren't going to get that with pump gas.

You're probably going to find that turbo + blower = boost spike. Doing the S-tube bypass is going to be mandatory if you want the setup to function... get a Saab wastegate that opens in the 4-5.5 psi range and use that to open the bypass, as soon as the blower has that much juice flowing a small turbo like the GT30 is already cracking. :)

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

http://www.vincentfurniture.com/phot...turboshot2.jpg

http://www.vincentfurniture.com/phot...turboshot1.jpg

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

Well, now. Looks like you've been working diligently!

Most of the scooby kids have to buy out-of-the-box solutions... we're proud to have you on our side of the interweb, you know.

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

Yeah, for right now I am ignoring the above, cause I want to see what happens..... There have been alot of successful turbo into SC setups, its just that alot = 5. ;D And I can modify as I go. So if I need to remove the SC, it will take about 10 minutes!

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

Wagon is up on blocks. STock exhaust manifold off. Tried a wrx manifold.. No go..... I would have had to cut/notch my crossmember. So I took a Borla exhaust off the shelf which I hadnt even thought of (doh!) and stuck that on... Bingo, we have a winner!

I will start welding tommorrow I hope. And take some pictures now that I found my camera charger!

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

that just makes you a retard who likes to waste your time and money

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

Or just some tweeker with too much time on your hands. You're going to make more power with that GT30 running 30+psi than you are with a funky ass twin charger set-up hands down. I'm sure you're well aware of what J.D. ellaborated on a little, which is efficiency. It's math and math doesn't lie. You're gonna spend tons of time and resources and basically just waste a build on something that you and everyone else knows isn't gonna make near as much power as just the turbo. It's gonna be a bitch to get the car running and boosting right unless you're a monster with a standalone and laptop and all sorts of little nightmareish bullshit.

I'm pretty sure you know a lot about cars and boosting things so I won't keep telling you ---- you already know, but do know that you're wasting time, energy, and money on something that you could choose not to do and end up building something else. This kinda seems like one of those "omg I have the coolest idea and I'm gonna do it, I don't care if 9 out of 10 people that have tried it fucked it up; because I can do it" sort of things.

Well good luck either way and if you actually get it to work right I'll be impressed, but honestly I think it'll end up where TONS of other good intentioned totally custom projects end up; which is getting one really nice attempt at it, it doesn't work right, try like hell to fix it until you've finally had enough, and then you end up going another route. If that happens Bitchass's theory will be correct and that would suck for you. :3

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

Thanks for all the positive vibe!

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

yeah i seen this done before over here, except a L67 blown and turbo'd gave nice power but i think you'll find the supercharger will be a restriction on the intake at higher RPM when its only turning at say 15000rpm and your turbos spinnin its tits off at 30000rpm... id loose the charger and go turbo all the way, GT30 is kinda big for that engine isnt it???

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

No, twincharging will make more power than turbo alone if he doesn't do a bypass, but spiking becomes an issue and the charge gets really hot - racegas or detonation.

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

supercharger is gonna be a restriction, it all cool if its a show car and you want it for the wowness but for performance its turbo or nothing.

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

Bypass will end up being a restriction at some point if he goes the route of bypassing the blower once the turbo is spooled.

The blower in series with the turbo does not act like a restriction, no. The blower compresses the air further, and at a geometric rate to boot = hot charge and boost spiking. No restriction there. Mean Gringo Bob had a MCU setup to cycle a bypass to maintain 2:1 exhaust to manifold pressure in his twincharged flathead Mustang, don't think the car is completed but the idea was sound (he cited a grip of literature) and I believe was how the old Lancia rally cars were set up.

Given the fragile transmissions and expensive replacement options for those cars, if he's just shooting for a broad torquey powerband with great driveability and modest power he'll have that, so it's really a moot point. Since he's already done more in a few weeks than most of you have accomplished in the last two years, I respectfully suggest you take your boyfriend's fist out of your ass and stuff it in your mouth if you don't have any experience, engineering insights, or real world physics to offer the guy in place of the "I've never done it, never seen it done, and couldn't pass an introductory college physics exam without taking the course first and working at it, but the blower will act like a restriction" noise.

Cliff notes:

- No, no, no.
- STFU and let the guy do something, since you aren't.

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

Damn JD! didn't have to hit me so hard I was just saying. I am the last person to speak out my ass I was just saying. but if I am wrong I am wrong. no argument there, just opinions

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

I love you, Leroy, make no mistake. You weren't the only one starting the Honda-tech bandwagon of jumping on this guy - even if you didn't realise that's what it was becoming - and I'm sorry if you feel I singled you out.

Short of McDaniels, I don't know of anyone with a completed twincharger setup, and I'm curious to see where this guy goes with his. Sorry if I was a dick. :-\

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

Kiss and make up :P

Sure, the twincharging is going to appear pointless to most of us because "just crank up the boost on the turbo" is the answer. Maybe this guy wants to do something different... I can't help but think of Whitey twin turbocharging his civic. People probably told him it was stupid, inefficient, gay, and to just slap one larger turbo on there and call it a day. It's called originality, people. Whitey went through with it and made it work. He'll admit himself it was a redundant setup, but kudos to him for not only THINKING differently, but then actually doing it and getting the job done! I say if this guy wants to twin charge his car we should be behind him 100%. I thought HMT was supposed to be a crowd of people not following the usual "omg greddy" crowd and doing our own thing.

Good luck with the project man. Looks great.

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

Did this this morning.... Made the uppipe.

Parts......

http://www.vincentfurniture.com/phot...ppipeparts.jpg

Used an existing manifold flange and pipe, welding it to the extra intercooler pipe I had

http://www.vincentfurniture.com/phot...angebefore.jpg

http://www.vincentfurniture.com/phot...langeafter.jpg

The turbo flange is 2.75 opening and I had to get there from a 2" pipe, so I bought two reducers and welding them in and up!

http://www.vincentfurniture.com/phot...urboflange.jpg

And the finished product.

http://www.vincentfurniture.com/phot...heduppipe1.jpg


Cost me $10 for the two reducers and the flange.

Next is the downpipe and 3" exhaust. I am probably going external wastegate, if the Audi 5000 wastegate I got an EBAY is any good.

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

Who cares if it works or not, this guy is ------' nuts! Got pics of the car this setup is in?

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

It has a different FMIC and hood though now...

http://www.vincentfurniture.com/phot...weredNOV24.jpg

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

is that a "GT30" or a just a old style T04E 0.60 compressor mounted on a grand national turbine?

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

thats what it looks like to me. Either way itd probably work fine on that motor, maybe be a little laggy but itll have a huge top end. I like fast wagons!

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

I think you got it.....

The compressor wheels measure out to be the equivilent of a gt30.

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

I never caught it, what transmission are you using?

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

i think turbine a/r is pretty high. in the 80's if i remember well.... Who knows. MAybe it will kick ass, even if it,s not a GT30.

The largest t04e wheel is 58.17mm wheel while the GT30 is 71 or 76 mm. STill, I am sure it's good for 500 hp

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

damn, that's lookin' gangster...good job stickin' with it, and ignorin' the criticism...I have a lil boy on the way, and i keep tryin' to talk my fiancee into gettin' a station wagon(I'm sayin' either WRX or Saab 9five 2.3t) but she wants a damn SUV or extended cab 4dr truck...oh well, it's her insurance money buying it, and she'll have to keep gas in it...anyways, good work cous, keep us posted..

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

Finished the downpipe..... Its just 2.5" for now, didnt have any 3"

http://www.vincentfurniture.com/phot...e/downpipe.jpg

The compressor specs are...

compressor = 58 mm inducer, 76 exducer and the turbine is 56 mm and 64 mm

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

THen it's a stage 3 turbine wheel.
This thing will certainly pull very hard, Certainly some spoolup gains from doing this, but I still don't get why it would pull any more than the least flowing of the two compressors.
I am not saying not to do this; I actually can'T wait to see the outcome. >:D

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

Same deal as the compound turbo setups the diesels use, where they stack two turbos in a row to boost 50-80+ psi.

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

Why am I doing this? I twin charged it already, both sequentually and in parrallel, with two superchargers. Neither setup worked because the superchargers are positive displacement fans, and it just doesnt work that way. So I decided to try turbo into supercharger, because this does work, at least in the right circumstances.

Originally I was just going to plumb in the stock Turbo Legacy turbo, but since I got lucky on ebay, why not try the big one?

So...

One, I said I was going to do it... Got to keep my word. :D

Two, I want to see if it works...

Three, the point of it working, is for insane low end....

and Four, it it doesnt work, I have ONE short pipe to fab and that eliminates the supercharger out of the equation.


And I am having a blast doing it! ;D

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

Here it is "installed"

If I could weld aluminium, and had the oil line, the damn thing would have started tonight!
>:D

http://www.vincentfurniture.com/phot...installed1.jpg

http://www.vincentfurniture.com/phot...installed2.jpg

Notice how the turbo out goes so nicely into the supercharger! :)

Also notice how restricted my inlet to the turbo is :(

I plan on making a weird box thing with flat filter for the air box.....

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

great progress. looking sweet, you probably gonna have to settle for a mesh over the compressor inlet, unless you are very good at fabbing to make air box, but either way good luck.

Re: Yeah, its gonna fit....and make 22 plus psi
 

Since I didnt want to pay for someone to weld up the aluminium intake into the supercharger, I made my own.

http://www.vincentfurniture.com/phot...percharger.jpg

If I could have gotten paid shop rate for the time I spent, I should have gotten the aluminium part done by someone else!!!!!

But.. Now I know I can weld 22 guage stainless!

The tubing is standard whatever SSAUTOCROME stainless tubing, the flange is 1/8" scrounged metal, and the rest is 22 guage (THIN) stainless. Needless to say, I had a few blow thoughs.... But in the end, what counts is how it works, and compared to the stock section, I would say 80%..... But since its being force fed now, 80% is closer to 95%....

Next step, oil lines......