Would this work for Engine management
02-09-2003, 12:35 PM
#1
1.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 590
Would this work for Engine management
I was thinking of the cheapest way to get my sol FI without spending my tuition money on hondata goodies. I want to just get a walboro pump with a pressure regulator and an A/F guage.
What do you guys think, bogus or worth a try?
What do you guys think, bogus or worth a try?
02-09-2003, 01:51 PM
#2
3.0 BAR
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,396
Re:Would this work for Engine management
lots of people go that way.. works for about 5psi, i wouldnt trust it any higher then that.
there are other ways of doing fuel management providing your good with your hands, and want to read.
check out this post.
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/...;threadid=1348
great post.
there are other ways of doing fuel management providing your good with your hands, and want to read.
check out this post.
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/...;threadid=1348
great post.
02-09-2003, 05:21 PM
#3
1.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 590
Re:Would this work for Engine management
I read the whoe thing, but I have a del sol with a P30 if I'm not mistaken. DOHC VTEC B16A3. I'm ---- out of luck from what that thread is saying.
"The difference between 88-91 and 92-95 ECUs is quite large. I will give you the long version if you wish, but the short version is the MicroCrontoller that the 92-95 ECU uses is completely different, and has a totally different instruction set. The assembly language that actually executes the static code is completely different. It is like comparing a MAC OS to a MS OS. C++ to Fortran. Pascal to Java (well the Jury is still out on that, heheh). Basically night and day difference. The only thing similar is how they look asthetically. There is a group that is concentrating on that flavor but boost is still probably a long way off. Me personally? I don't care about 92+ ECU's, and probably never will. If you want to chip your OBD1 ECU for boost then I encourage you to check out www.Hondata.com"
Anyone else who can comment?
"The difference between 88-91 and 92-95 ECUs is quite large. I will give you the long version if you wish, but the short version is the MicroCrontoller that the 92-95 ECU uses is completely different, and has a totally different instruction set. The assembly language that actually executes the static code is completely different. It is like comparing a MAC OS to a MS OS. C++ to Fortran. Pascal to Java (well the Jury is still out on that, heheh). Basically night and day difference. The only thing similar is how they look asthetically. There is a group that is concentrating on that flavor but boost is still probably a long way off. Me personally? I don't care about 92+ ECU's, and probably never will. If you want to chip your OBD1 ECU for boost then I encourage you to check out www.Hondata.com"
Anyone else who can comment?
02-09-2003, 07:03 PM
#4
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Posts: n/a
Re:Would this work for Engine management
As far as the software is, I EcuControl is able to use the OBD1 P30, yes. So you could chip your ECU and use the datalogging software.
Soon.. Ghettodyne will support that ECU and you can tune it.
That thread just got on the use of a PM6 because a lot of use that ECU to control our cars.
Bottom line, at the moment, your P30 is not supported for tuning, but is supported for datalogging.
Soon.. Ghettodyne will support that ECU and you can tune it.
That thread just got on the use of a PM6 because a lot of use that ECU to control our cars.
Bottom line, at the moment, your P30 is not supported for tuning, but is supported for datalogging.
02-10-2003, 11:38 AM
#5
0.5 BAR
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 71
Re:Would this work for Engine management
dude just pick up an s afc for like $250 don't worry about the fuel pump and get some bigger injectors. and you can run like 8 psi. actually a v afc in your case. you don't need a new fuel pump unless you plan on boosting more then 12 psi.
02-10-2003, 01:36 PM
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re:Would this work for Engine management
Ya, but witht he AFC hack, you're just dumping and dumping fuel as if you were boosted the whole time.
You're car is going to get the crappiest gas mileage known to man. It'd be like you're running a old school V8.
If you tune your ECU to give proper fuel for the amount of boost vs rpm, you'll be able to have fuel economy, AND boost, not to mention a get the most power from your modification.
You're car is going to get the crappiest gas mileage known to man. It'd be like you're running a old school V8.
If you tune your ECU to give proper fuel for the amount of boost vs rpm, you'll be able to have fuel economy, AND boost, not to mention a get the most power from your modification.
02-10-2003, 03:27 PM
#7
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 438
Re:Would this work for Engine management
That is so untrue. The afc hack delivers fuel almost perfectly in AND OUT of boost. I don't know where you are getting your information, but by limiting the voltage of the map sensor and replacing your injectors with 450's, you ALLOW the stock ecu's fuel map to cover boost. Both RPM and MAP **(boost)** signal are used in the calculation, and the result is a near-perfect harmony in fuel deliver (except from the idle-trasistion) across the entire rev band, in every gear, boosting or not. The computer still USES the MAP signal and 02 sensor, so at part throttle, it modifies it's pulses to STILL deleiver the perfect amount of fuel, just like stock. In boost, the map signal voltage returns to approxamate normal (stock, N/A) voltages, and instead of the computer knowing it is in boost, it 'thinks' it is just seeing normal manifold pressures experienced during normal NA accelaration, due to the 40% cut in voltage. SO, ~12psi looks like ZERO BOOST (Zero vac, wide open throttle) to the ecu, when in reality, it's 10 psi. Since the ECU doesn't see the boost, It just add's fuel as it normally would. It just so happens that at WOT you can tune it so the computer deleivers the IN BOOST (open loop) fuel perfectly, to get the perfect A/F ratio, and therefore NO bad gas mileage. The 450cc injectors allow for all the needed fuel for this to work, and the saem pulse width that the ecu would use on stock injectors is capable of delivering enough fuel for boost...
The only limit is about 12PSI, b/c you can't cut the MAP sensor value any more, b/c then normal fuel delivery becomes a problem (too lean)... But, bottom line is... There is NO (barely) and reduction in gas mileage using the hack, and it works PERFECTLY and EFFICIENTLY. Once you understand how it is actually working, you will understand why it does and that it does. I have been driving around with the hack for 2 months waiting to install my turbo (450cc's + AFC) and I have seen NO noticeable reduction in gas mileage, and my car runs well. If you were to get in and drive it, You would NOT KNOW that it was running 450cc injectors. Bottom line.
The only limit is about 12PSI, b/c you can't cut the MAP sensor value any more, b/c then normal fuel delivery becomes a problem (too lean)... But, bottom line is... There is NO (barely) and reduction in gas mileage using the hack, and it works PERFECTLY and EFFICIENTLY. Once you understand how it is actually working, you will understand why it does and that it does. I have been driving around with the hack for 2 months waiting to install my turbo (450cc's + AFC) and I have seen NO noticeable reduction in gas mileage, and my car runs well. If you were to get in and drive it, You would NOT KNOW that it was running 450cc injectors. Bottom line.
02-10-2003, 03:47 PM
#8
0.5 BAR
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 121
Re:Would this work for Engine management
ouch...TurboEF9 kinda got told.
Johnnyquest - what engine r u running, and what is your settings on the AFC, cause i bought one, but i haven't installed it yet cause i wanted to wait till i got all the turbo bits and pieces together.
Johnnyquest - what engine r u running, and what is your settings on the AFC, cause i bought one, but i haven't installed it yet cause i wanted to wait till i got all the turbo bits and pieces together.
02-10-2003, 04:53 PM
#10
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 438
Re:Would this work for Engine management
I'm running DSM 2nd gen 450cc injectors (black-top) on a 1995 EX (d16z6)... I am using 65% and 75% as my lo and hi throttle points. This is because the stock ecu changes supposedly from closed to open loop @ 71% and if you use different setting froms the high to the low maps, the way the afc calcualtes, if you keep your settings to close toghther (ie. 70%/71%) your car will buck when you are applying throttle due to the sudden change in map voltage. My baseline setting was -38% across the board. I just pulled that # out of my *** when I was doing it, but it worked well. You will notice that the Honda ECU is VERY capable of making your engine run no matter how you set it, but some settings are better than others. I know for sure -38 worked as a good baseline for me and the car was very very driveable but with some playing around with the maps, you will find out what works best for you. Just play with it, drive around, play with it, drive around. It's really easy, and once you find somthing your happy with, just forget about it. Remember the magic rule: The more negative you tune it (ie -40), the more boost you can run. Go as lean as you can safely and that will allow the most boost. Understand also that the settings below where your turbo actually spools (to full boost, say <3000rpm) can be a little richer if need be since map signal voltage will never be too high due to low boost...
Any more questions, ask away!~
One more tip- If you have an A/F gauge, pay close attention to what it does before you install the 450's... Try to mimic those A/F ratios when you install the 450's. IE, my gauge @ full throttle used to light up aprrox the 3rd green light, so I tuned it to exactly that @ full throttle. You'll get hte hang of it.
Any more questions, ask away!~
One more tip- If you have an A/F gauge, pay close attention to what it does before you install the 450's... Try to mimic those A/F ratios when you install the 450's. IE, my gauge @ full throttle used to light up aprrox the 3rd green light, so I tuned it to exactly that @ full throttle. You'll get hte hang of it.
