What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

First time Poster!

Need some info here.... still learning about the turbo stuff.

Right now on my 700 Rappy... I am running a gt28 at 8psi of boost, internal wastergate. I want to switch over to an external waste gate and run in the high teens PSI.... but not sure yet if I'm going to be switching to a gt20 or not.

Does anyone know what size, or around what size waste gate to get?
And which are good brands? Do they all require new springs to work with a PSI, or are some of them adjustable on the fly? (just in case someone beats me ;D)

Here are some pics of my setup now

Tony

Attachment 15688
Attachment 15689
Attachment 15690

Also if someone wants to trade a GT28 for a gt20 Lemme know....

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

That's badass. Why not just hook up an MBC? If you really want an external gate, a 38mm Tial or Tial knock-off would be fine. Turbonetics Deltagates are adjustable but that's gay.

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

I'm sorry, new to the turbo forums ;D What is a MBC?

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

mechanical boost controller (MBC)

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

Thank you for answering my questions :)

I am looking at this wastegate on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/UNIVE...=1218490855250

Would this one hold up for 10 hours? That's about how much I ride my bike a year.

And does the flange just weld to my exhaust, and I drill a hole out? Is there any kind of dump needed for this style wastegate?

Opinions?

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

That would do you just fine but like I said, with a $15 MBC you could do at least 14-15psi no problem and wouldnt have to weld/cut anything. Literally a 30-second install.

MBC bleeds of some of your boost and "hides" it from the wastegate, making the gate open later.

If you want to install the external gate it needs to be on the manifold before the turbo, preferably in such a way where all of the runners get a semi-equal shot at expelling exhaust through the gate. You don't *have* to make a dump tube but that ---- is hot and will melt stuff.

Unless you're shooting for some god-awful power, just do the MBC. You'll want to get one for tuning your pressure anyways so go ahead and just buy one first.

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

I get what you're saying. Is there a link on here where to get a MBC? And how does it bypass the wastegate? Sorry for the questions, just kinda threw this thing together, now I'm going for fine tuning and boost.... it already hauls ass the way it is.... but you know like blowers and turbo.... psi becomes addicting when it only takes a few minutes to change

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

boost line-----------------------mbc----------------------------w/g. thats how you hook it up. tee the signal for your w/g and put the mbc where you tee'd. simple

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

its a spring pressing on a ball bearing increasing the amount of manifold pressure, by keeping lower pressure from pushing that ball bearing out of place and letting pressure go by. it just lets less by basically. sorta like using a smaller tip on a garden hose. higher pressure.

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

Where does the boost line come from? I hooked up what I thought was a vacuum line, to my Throttle Body as seen in the pictures, is that a boost line?

And does a MBC work with an internal wastegate?

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

ok take the line from your throttle body that goes to your wastegate and cut it then install the mbc in between and dial in the boost you want im guessing you have a guge to read from because thats the only way that u know what boost you will be running with a mbc.

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

+1
thats exactly what i meant

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

I think this blueish hose is the line that I ran. I did install a gate valve inbetween the the wastegate and throttlebody. I tried blocking it off all the way, and didn't feel a difference, but then again I haven't had it on the dyno that way, but possibly soon. I did notice one time I had it blocked off, that it spat the line off....obviously because of boost right? Should I make a MBC to go there instead of this gate valve? And with a MBC, can I run higher boost even though my wastegate is set a 8psi? I did just install a boost guage, but haven't tried that test with it on yet.... maybe it's bout time I do that.

Anyone have pics of their MBC?

Sorry for the Noob questions.... still learning

Attachment 15670

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

Let me preface my question by saying that I don't intend to come across as a dick - we were all noobs at one point. :1

How the hell did you manage to install a turbo on this thing with such minimal knowledge of turbo setups? Did somebody else build it? :S

Anyway, nice setup. Get a manual boost controller. http://www.boostvalve.com :y

Colin

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

If you want to see the max. boost your engine will make with that turbo just disconnect the wastegate line. Let of the gas and it gets too high :6 Basically a boost controller will let you set the boost level between what you are making now, and what you would make with that line off.

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

Thanks, that would help alot.

Yea, a friend built it, now I'm attempting to duplicate it for another bike. ----, I know the in's and outs of a Roots style blower, cams (which from what I understand are similar to turbo motors) heat, afr's, etc.... just trying to nail down the refined terms for the turbos. I'm sure I'll pick it up in no time

I just have always done Naturally aspirated, or blown V8's.... I see alot of nip cars running around here, and I know you guys are the go to guys for the turbo stuff. Also I'm in the middle of building a twin turbo 340 Dodge, I'm welding up the headers tonight

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

Thinking about this again, on my boost line I ran a gate valve, closing it would make it make more boost too correct?

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

Im going to agree 100% with Colin on this. You are a ------- idiot..just kidding but seriously you really NEED to understand what's going on down there with your wastegate and how it works and what it does and why. If you hook it up wrong and go WOT, your ---- can and will explodify all over the place and get oil on your legs.

You seem like a nice enough noob, so I'll help you out.

The turbo needs exhaust to spin, right? The more exhaust, the more spin = the more boost...

The wastegate is a flapper door that opens in the hotside of the turbo that will let some of that exhaust bypass the turbo, so it doesnt spin so fast thus limiting boost.

The flapper door is actuated by your wastegate actuator that turns boost into the mechanical movement of the actuator rod which in turn opens the flapper door, limiting your boost.

Say you get to 8psi. The wastegate sees that boost and opens the flapper door just enough to limit you to 8psi. Let off the gas to partial throttle, say you're making 6psi at that point - that is not enough pressure to open the flapper, so all of the exhaust gas is now working again to get you to full boost..hope that made sense.

So anytime the boost hits 8psi, you'll have enough pressure to turn that into mechanical movement to open the flapper door.

Say you poke a tiny hole in your wastegate vacuum line so now when you are making 10psi, lets say about 2psi excapes out of that hole. The wastegate is seeing 8psi even though you are actually making 10psi. The wastegate doesnt give a ---- about the price of tea in China. All it knows is that when it sees 8psi, it opens the flapper - limiting your boost.

The MBC is equivalent to that hole in your wastegate line.

The thing next to your wastegate can is called a Blow Off Valve. That's another thread.

It would be best to give the wastegate it's own vacuum line for safety and make sure that ---- ain't gonna pop off. Use zip-ties, hoseclamps..whatever. The wastegate line only needs to see boost, not vacuum & boost. But if it sees vacuum, no harm done. You can get this line from either after the throttle body or before it.

The blowoff valve needs to get both vacuum (for it's actuation) and boost (to keep it closed during boost). Therefore, you want to get your signal AFTER the throttle body.

If you dont understand any of what I just said - understand it before you do anything.

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

Read this:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turbo.htm

http://www.boostcruising.com/forums/...d=&st=0&#entry

(Read the first post only. The people commenting on it are tards.)


Buy this:

http://www.amazon.com/Maximum-Boost-...8551890&sr=8-1

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

Thanks SloS13, that was drawn out enough for it to be clear to me ;D

That turbo line was unrestricted before, straight to my throttle body, so wouldn't that mean that it should be letting additional boost by anyhow? I understand how an internal/external wastegate works, and the BOV... just trying to get to the nitty gritty now....

After I had hooked up my guage finally, I noticed my bike is pullnig vacuum until about 4000rpm, then it starts boosting. I'm pretty sure this is possibly because the turbo is too big correct?

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

Wow, that made things alot more clear for me now, thank you for posting that link, I appreciate it.

Now look at my setup now, it appears that there are two vacuum lines coming off of my internal wastegate, one that goes to the top of my BOV, and the other goes straight to my throttle body.

Both of these lines are wide open, so that would mean it is unrestricted and should be boosting unlimited correct? Possibly my turbo is too big to make a scary amount of boost?

Thanks guys for answering my questions. I'm looking to get around 3hp per cubic inch on this bike, and am about 2 right now after porting, flowtesting my head and valve job, and a few other nifty tricks I do often in naturally aspirated land.... but for that extra kick I'm lookin for more boost. O0

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

you can't expect us to make sense of what's going on in your particular, cramped setup. Saying what line goes to what depends on what it's COMING from.

If you read up, there will be absolutely no question as to what needs to be hooked up where.

If your WG has 2 vacuum ports, there is a thread around here somewhere about hooking it up. It might just be that the bottom one is optional (I forget).

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

The only vacuum lines I have running, are two from the top of my internal wastegate, one going to the top of my BOV, and the other going to my throttle body. Thanks, I will search for that thread.... I did a bunch of searching before I signed up, but couldn't find the info to fit on the right boot. And yes it is cramped in there.... But hides it alot better from others >:D

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

Add an adjustable restriction (manual boost controller) between the throttle body and wastegate nipple. :y

And quit being a O0 - is that aquarium hose? :X

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

LOL, what type of hose should I get? I didn't relize boost was going through there until you guys helped me out :1

These hoses are just pushed on, I guess it'll be a good idea to hose clamp them. From what I understand, with no boost controller on this turbo line, the turbo should keep boosting until it blows correct? Because this line has been open to the throttle body for some time now, but haven't seen any ill effects as of yet

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

No, with a line straight from the intake to the wastegate, the turbo will only create as much boost as the wastegate will allow. If the wastegate has a 10 psi spring, it will open at 10 psi. If you put a ball and spring valve inline, you can INCREASE the boost from 10 psi. You cannot use a manual boost controller to lower the boost past the wastegate spring setting.

Get some black vacuum hose from a parts store and zip-tie those lines. :y

Colin

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

This hasnt been brought up yet and it's not wastegate-related but you have modified your fuel system, right?

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

Not yet, but I have made a different fuel map for it if that counts as modification

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

Well, just as long as you know boosting it with the stock map, you'll get a damaged piston quick.

Those things are fuel injected? Bad ass. I'm outta the loop.

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

Yup, got this thing 3 years ago, very easy to tune

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

i personally think your not making boost until 4k rpm is because your header is to long
there is a reason all those turbo busa's and basicly anything turbo they are mounted as close to exhaust ports as possible it's because that is where the exhaust gasses are at their highest velocity i say move the turbo up in front of the engine, and build a shorter header and that will help you build boost also it should help with cooling a bit aswell (sorta like ram air at speed, and the radiator already has a fan on it to pull air though and twards the eninge that should also help keep it cool)
and then you would be able to throw a small air-air ic where the turbo is now with a couple scoops to catch air and you would have plenty more cooling for safer boosting and could build boost sooner tho i am not promising that your turbo is to small because it verry well may be
you said that it starts making boost at 4k rpm but never said where the boost levels off at or if it does or at what rpm

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

what about the fact it's a 700cc enigne pushing a gt28

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

+1 the long tubes will make it spool a little slower but the main problem is to large of a turbo imo ;)

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

Get a Mitsubishi TC03 - they used them on the 650cc Seca... should be alright on a 700. Two-bolt flange, too. Easy to fab. :y

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

I know the turbo's off of passat's are tiny maybe small enough for your application?? i know its smaller then the gt28

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

ko3 peanut

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

On this setup, on the dyno, anything smaller than a gt20 it started loosing power across the board. The only reason why I'm running the Gt28 is because it was the only ball bearing turbo that I had available, without having to shell out for a gt25, which I might do in the future.

Alot of the bushing, lubed turbos in these kind of applications seem to not last long, or so other Turbo'd atvers have told me, with all the sand, all the different loads of climbing hills, puts alot of stress on everything, let alone the turbo.

And there are two reason why the turbo is back there like it is. The number one reason being, this cylinder head has two exhaust ports exiting the head, facing away from each other at about 45*, it is pretty difficult to get a header to line up to a single collector, and fit it under the frame right there. I wish I could do that, that would give me the ability to run an intercooler. And the Second reason for running it back there..... it is ALOT more sneakier >:D At first glance it just looks like it has a different silencer on it (this is the stock header with heat shield). And now the way I have it hidden makes it quite difficult to see the turbo.

I do agree with all of those reasons of slow spooling, being the long header and large turbo.... this particular bike has a 102mm bore and 96mm stroke..... so there is alot of room in the combustion chamber to make havoc.

And the third reason why I'm leaving this turbo.... this bike will soon be a 907cc stroker, that is .907 liters lol

I wanted to get this wastegate situation worked out, but thanks to you guys now I am going to try a MBC, and see what the results are. Within the next month this bike will be on the dyno, to fine tune the AFR, and to see how capable it is with another nitrous set up I have.

After the 907 stroker, more boost (Still workin on it) I am projecting somewhere around 150hp to the wheels, and will be addiing a 50shot on top of that. I am very conservative and safe right now, but soon this thing's gonna haul ass or blow, and if it gives I had fun doing it, no problem with me ;D

Tony

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

If you are going to add a MBC then i would definitely run another vacuum line just for the BOV. If not that then at very least T off the current vac line before the MBC

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

I have a vacuum line running off my wastegate now going to my BOV, what purpose does this serve?

Re: What size Wastegate? For ATV
 

I personally think you're the biggest tard I've ever seen in the history of this website.

The gas does not have it's highest velocity at exit of the engine, this is where it is most turbulant point, the enthalpy would be the highest in the exhaust stream (which is why short log mani's spool quicker, there's a higher pressure differential) but velocity is an acceleration, which in a fluid is a flow.

The only thing you could argue about would be the amount of time it takes to fill the extra volume the longer tubes creates, which doesn't matter anyway because that area is pressurized just about from 1k rpm and up.

Too big of a turbo would cause lag like this man experiences.

Ass sandwich.