Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

Who uses it/has used water meth injection?

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

I believe a while ago some people were using it, and i think some people are using it now.

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Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

Okie cos i need some help.

i Got the Snow Boost Kit, and would like to know what is the best way to use it to suplliment my setup. cos i think 2 bars boost is very possible if the 93+W.M.I=116 Octane. im currently doing 1.5 bar on 95.

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

I think 93octane plus water/methanol equal 116 octane is a little bit over exaggerating.

I use methanol injection via devils own progressive kit, bought from wide open tuning here,
I don't have any proof that it makes any difference, but I feel more confident running it, I use windshield washer fluid in mine.

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

Okie that what i read on there website, in my country our base fuel is 95 octane and our race fuel is 102. so even if the meth only gives me 102 we will still be able to push the car harder/further

Have you advanvced timing? have you increased boost?

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

Spike it with some Toluene, that stuff has high detonation resistance and is pretty cheap at paint stores.

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

Gotta be careful, if you walk into the same paint store every week buying the ---- out of toluene they might call the cops on your ass thinking your running a meth lab. :6

No joke.

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

what country you located?
I havent tried any playing around with it, I just run it on top of my tune. I ran 25 psi on that one, spun a bearing holding the rev at 9100 rpm for a long stretch on the autobahn in 5th, the egt was not high

I have a motor that I am building right now for next year, planning on running some naaz also.
I can't find no race gas supplier here, I met a guy who have a couple of rocket cars, he usually hooked me up with a few liters but I just mix it with my regular gas.
is there another name for touline, be nice to find the German name.

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

Toluene 115 octane and Xylene 117 are the Favorites to increase octane ratings.

But if worth water/meth injection works (116) why bother with that ----? I have done my mathermatic and using Tol&xyl to increase octane is very exspensive......
I dont like cars that are dependant on Race gas/high octane fuel's i like the idea of driving on pump gas all week long, then when u are on the highway and sum punk comes out of now where and whats top race you, all ones does is flip a swicth and you got High octane juice at your finger tips....

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

I perfer straight meth intervienous injections myself

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

That ---- better be pure. :l

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

I tried tried straight methanol before and it went really lean, so I guess I will tune for 50/50

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

If it went really lean why didn't you tune it?

Richen it up, I don't know what the stoich is for Methanol but I'm quasi-sure it's higher ppm than gasoline.

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

Yeah, tell me about it. :P I used to buy at least 5 gallons a week from the local sherwin williams paint store, ended up with the state police knocking on my door asking a whole lot of questions.

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

wafflesincars gave me sum realy gewd advice in the Water Injection 2007 post, i will be printing the before and after water/methonal dyno comparison for all the non belivers.. wish me luck...

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

Just water works alot better than most people give credit for....

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

Better at what? Raising the Octane? I had no idea that could happen. :l

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

stoich for meth is something like 6:1 isnt it

hence lean.

secondly, if you have 95 as the base grade in "your mystery country" then your country unlike the usa uses RON to measure its fuel. 95ron is pretty average to ---- fuel. 98 ron is decent and 102 ron is what "JDM" cars get to run on, the lucky buggers. at home we can get 91ron, 95ron, and 98ron.

98ron ~= 93aki

aki is what usa uses to measure fuel, also known (stupidly) as pump octane

aki = (ron + mon)/2

95ron ~= 90aki which is far from ideal for boost.

toluene is good ----. its similar in energy content to gas, so wont screw your afrs.

to run eth or meth, you need much bigger fuel components, pumps, lines, injectors. you will also have some issues getting the car running in cold weather if its meth and pure.

schwitzy, get a grip on what you are actually running first. then go about trying to mod it.

the american nature of the internet must have ruined the engines of quite a few ron measuring noobs over the years

"all these people on this forum can run 20psi on only 93 octane with 9:1 compression and 15 degrees advance, so i MUST be sweet with the same numbers and 95 octane gas"

bang.

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

Hey man, I tried. I told him outright as clearly as possible. I ------- tried. :3

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

LMAO, i just checked.

no one pointed out that he was using RON.

but yeah, you have put in enough time :-)

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

That's because gasoline made from a toluene base. It's mixed with other additives like "cleaning agents" and such for pump use. F1 used to run a pretty strict diet of 98% toluene and 2% fillers back in the day, but something changed in the rulebooks a few years back and I don't think they can run it anymore. I haven't kept up with it in a long time, so I don't know the exact story anymore. Pump gas is something like a 60% toluene base iirc.

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

----, i could have sworn it was only 85%

whats the rest? diesel? it would nearly have to be to come out so low in octane if this was the case. i strongly doubt this.

not so many aromatics are used in fuel now, more than with leaded, but not so much. i'm sure waffles will chime in here with a break down. i cant be arsed looking it up.

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

They took out the toluene the same time they took off the turbochargers, some finicky old fucker who was head of a commission or something figured it was too dangerous, or unfair. Just like the class B rally cars back in the day, something about a 1000hp 1.3L Peugeot didn't sit right with someone in charge of the rules.

Toluene is formed by the reformation of gasoline after it's undergone hydrogenation, you can't specifically change the octane by diluting petroleum with heavier carbon chains, you get weird separation and formation of tar compounds or paraffin chains, and effectively the aqueous product is going to have a lower "octane" rating than it did before you diluted it. This is one of the reasons they have to change the entire fuel system should some moron put diesel in a gasoline tank, gunky gunk.

This explains it rather welll:
http://members.aol.com/profchm/Petroref.html

Arsed. :1

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

I when i was using toluene i was told to throw a couple capfulls of ATF in it because toluene dries out the fuel system because of its pure JDM goodness.

apparently :X

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

i've mixed diesel and gas together and not had any separation. maybe i just didnt notice.

i was told to put atf in with mine too, but ignored that advice. no part of my fuel system really needs lubrication. the pumps are ok running on alcohol, and the injectors i can replace if/when they fail from it. i strongly doubt that the 2/3 of lubricants/additives left in there with a 33% mix are insufficient to do what they need to do.

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

Oh it works, just not chemically perfect. Like if you drew up the supposed reaction for what's supposedly happening.

You'd have a close model, but different chains would come out that you'd expect, (emissions restrictions will hate you).

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

so, then is he right, is typical gas 60% toluene?

if it was 50% toluene and 50% (something that has octane of zero) overall octane would be in the 60 region.

75% and it would be in the 90's where it is, BUT, its not mixed with stuff with an octane rating of zero, so i reckon there is stuff all aromatic content because if there was a lot, the octane would almost have to be higher.

your take on the composition?

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

On average there is 0% toluene in pump gas.

Gasoline is obtained from fractal distillation of crude oil, (boiling off different compounds at different pressures, google vacuum distillation). Toluene is obtained from reformation of gasoline through electrophilic aromatic substitution.

The average substitute in gasoline is benzene, which is a much cheaper and easier to obtain aromatic hydrocarbon (boils off at a lower temp), the methyl group tacked onto benzene (methylbenzene = Toluene) makes it around 25 times more reactive than your run of the mill benzene molecule.

Sad but true.

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

dunno about the states, but benzene is regulated to 0.5% or something in nz gas. all the aromatics are because they = cancer.

i agree about toluene not being in gas.

putting it in gas though, now that is a good idea if you can be bothered :-)

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

Yea, clean air acts like to pretend like all hydrocarbons aren't carcinogens ::)

Average percentage was something like 20% in 2004, I think they replaced it with some aliphatic compound garbage, cyclopentane?

Like it's any better, electrolysis of hydrogen through the alternator would be a good additive to raise the octane, besides straight water.

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

so tolene at hardware stores, can you tell me how it works in simple terms and how to use it? honestly it sounds pretty interesting..i want to go with e85 this spring, but the availabilty when goin on drives would be a pain in the ass and if i could add this to my fuel which is what is sounds liek you do correct>? it would be really nice

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

Just google "Toluene F1" or go to the water injection thread and find out how to make a pretty simple jet set-up, the guy used expensive fittings and ---- but it can be done for cheaper.

If you are running straight toluene I'd recommend an external fuel cell.

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

so you spray it in? you dont mix it with your fuel?

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

You can, but hardware grade needs to be dried and decanted before you can run it, it has bad solvents added into it, or water.

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

Run a pintle type nozzle with a variable resistor to your Water/Meth pump, resistor being hooked up to the throttle body rotator-ma-jig.
Maybe solenoids that control flow to multiple jets?

---- man I don't know, get ------- creative.

The way I'm going to rig mine is with a micro switch at 75% throttle, just kick the pump on and off.

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

you could, but usually you wouldnt. think of it as a really high dose high effectiveness octane booster. 30% with 93aki is enough for some good power from virtually any engine with a good bar of boost on top. i drove on it at about 50% before i topped up with gas and it started and ran normally, just had a silly high octane rating...

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

I have the progressive kit that up the amount of injection per boost,
and my friend is using a input on the hondata s300 to control his.

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

Boost dependent fpr and a system with a return line?

Re: Water/Meth- Who uses it?
 

You Ozzies must have some nicer gas than us in the states, I've put a bit in a gallon jug to mix for the old boosted Jetta we had, all the impurities and garbage and grossness settled to the bottom, the top was a good mixture though, octane should've been up there.

I'm sure it's a better way than those little capsules. :-X