ososlohatch

omg not the efi vs. carb arguement

Inquisition

Okay, find me ONE dyno chart or academic article which illustrates carbs making more power than an EFI system. Both properly tuned. I've challenged a number of people to this, none have succeeded. I generally can find a handful of half assed attempts at it but the EFI system always ends up making more power. The carb is better myth is just that, a myth. Cheaper, simpler, better bang for the buck? Yes. More efficient? Absolutely not.

Slo_crx1

Actually, these days efi is cheaper than good carbs. Most people hear "carbs" and think of old Holleys or Edelbrock...I'm talking about side-drafts and down-draft carbs like webers, solos, mikuni's etc. These carbs won't make more power than efi at all...until they reach over a certain rpm point (like I said, usually a pretty high one, and continue to become more efficient as rpm increases). Efficiency and carbs is a joke, there's no denying that efi owns it in that aspect, as well as the torque curve. I wish I had a copy of the interview done by Honda Tuning mag from october '03 with bisi...he explains some things misunderstood with carbs (he holds a chemical engineering degree...he knows his ----), and here are some highlights I did a quick search for. http://www.autoindustriya.com/yabbse...2945.msg285730
Not saying that injectors can't be made to produce the same profinciency of atomization as carbs do, it's just not feesable with where they'd have to sit. Not to mention it'd have to be an itb setup.
For efficiency and fuel economy, efi is the way. I personally wouldn't want to deal with all the issues associated with carbs on any of my cars, n/a or not...way too many problems.

Inquisition

I need a legit source from a legit person. Bisi interjecting his opinions is not of interest to me. I like to see hard data or reasonable logic one way or the other. You've offered me neither. Again, I need a legit source of carbs producing more power than EFI.

USS

Why does an organization such as Nascar (OMG NASCAR~!!!!) use carbs? 750-850 hp at 9000 rpms. Do they do it just to keep things simple, or is there another reason?

2G6

Carbs smarbs, I use direct bio deisel injection via the intake manifold. I don't have fuel injection either. Just direct port with nozzles and a 60lb bottle . I made 3.8whp on my Murray lawnmower. Suck on that you bitch *** trick. ZOMG fuel injection is better for street cars and boost, at least for the average tuner. This isn't NascarHMT.com.

0b00st0

NASCAR is not a good source for this at all.

They use such old technology everywhere they can. The suspension design is old and not very good and guess what, so is the engine.

Also they try to make the playing field pretty level. Using carbs is a good way of doing that.


The real power producing sport (non-drag of course) F1 uses EFI. They wouldn't make nearly the power that they do or as reliable is they used carbs.

Big J

Tuning with fuel pressure is good for gross (big) adjustments, if you need a huge adjustment do it with fuel pressure. BUT you'll still need to fine tune by what ever means to get it right and stay safe. If you're running 70 psi, get larger injectors and then back fuel pressure down by a precentage roughly equivilant to the increase in injector size and start there.

You can look at fuel trims with a scan tool and check fuel trims, if your ECU is add or subtracting large amounts of fuel, play with fuel pressure to get the trims closer to +/- 0 so long as the AFR under load stays safe. It gets diffrent if you use a 1:1 rising rate FPR vs. a static. Moral of the story, fuel pressure for gross adjustments, but you still need most likely need some fine control over AFRs.

USS

I knew that all types of "real" racing still (mostly) use EFI these days. Just wondering if Nascar was really that bad or there was some special reason behind it.

0b00st0

To retain that redneck appeal.