Terminator Mode.
07-12-2005, 01:14 PM
#11
1.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 375
Re: Terminator Mode.
lol my budget is 10 bucks. Outa which 8 will probally be spent on the Pic.
Some great inputs and ideas being thrown arround.
I told my mate about interfacing the MAP sensor and he says if your powering on and off one item why not make it two or three. So I say no problem. We will turn on one more and this will go to the cold start injector or maybe 3 and the 3rd witll go to the watter / alky injector.
If I could lay my hands on a cheap Presure sensetive switch all this wouldnt even be required but we dont get them in our neck of the woods and importing is out of the question. This project would work cheaper.
I have just one doubt though. We where arguing about this. He says the cold start injector compress the fluid before injecting it. My point was no way it compreses anything we would need to tap the fuel line for the injector off the FMU output i.e. put a Y cable. One line to the carb and one line to the injector.
Hes like no need man the Cold start compreses the fuel and injects it / has its own pump.
On the WG problem pointed out above. We should be able to come up with a stupid solution to that. like open WG hold open X seconds.
Or even pulse the dam thing to keep it accurate to 1 PSI. Shouldnt be too hard.
Now if I could just find a Presure sensetive s/w that did the on off business for me. I wouldnt need anything else. Just let the Presure s/w turn on or off the selunoid.
On a side note. The solunoid even in its closed possition allows air to flow in one direction on this unit its 10 PSI. So if there where no electronics involved and I just pluged it in as is. My 4psi WG would become a 10 psi WG.
This was discovered by accident we where stress testing the thing to see how much presure it could hold. Went up to 90 PSI no problem. Swaped it arround and after 10 PSI it started passing air. Ive drawn an arrow on it so we know which way to hook it up.
Some great inputs and ideas being thrown arround.
I told my mate about interfacing the MAP sensor and he says if your powering on and off one item why not make it two or three. So I say no problem. We will turn on one more and this will go to the cold start injector or maybe 3 and the 3rd witll go to the watter / alky injector.
If I could lay my hands on a cheap Presure sensetive switch all this wouldnt even be required but we dont get them in our neck of the woods and importing is out of the question. This project would work cheaper.
I have just one doubt though. We where arguing about this. He says the cold start injector compress the fluid before injecting it. My point was no way it compreses anything we would need to tap the fuel line for the injector off the FMU output i.e. put a Y cable. One line to the carb and one line to the injector.
Hes like no need man the Cold start compreses the fuel and injects it / has its own pump.
On the WG problem pointed out above. We should be able to come up with a stupid solution to that. like open WG hold open X seconds.
Or even pulse the dam thing to keep it accurate to 1 PSI. Shouldnt be too hard.
Now if I could just find a Presure sensetive s/w that did the on off business for me. I wouldnt need anything else. Just let the Presure s/w turn on or off the selunoid.
On a side note. The solunoid even in its closed possition allows air to flow in one direction on this unit its 10 PSI. So if there where no electronics involved and I just pluged it in as is. My 4psi WG would become a 10 psi WG.
This was discovered by accident we where stress testing the thing to see how much presure it could hold. Went up to 90 PSI no problem. Swaped it arround and after 10 PSI it started passing air. Ive drawn an arrow on it so we know which way to hook it up.
07-12-2005, 08:55 PM
#12
3.0 BAR
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,811
Re: Terminator Mode.
Great job testing the solenoid before hand. Most people skip important things like that!
I still don't think you'll be able to "pulse" that thing quickly enough to control boost in a useable way, but I wish you luck!
I know how you feel on the budget. I got a spare cold-start injector off for my engine off Ebay. Wound up being a $5 water injection project.
You're dead on about cold start injectors, your friend doesn't have a clue. Cold start injectors are nothing more than an atomizer on a stick, with a solenoid in them to cut the flow on and off. When you feed a CSI (normally) 12v, the solenoid opens -> the fluid squirts out, just like any other relay, or solenoid.
Be careful with CSI's. Most of them only flow 100-150cc @ 30psig (a rare few up to 200cc @ 43psig), and I've seen many people forget that! The good news, is that they have superior spray patterns to the atomizers most people use, and since the solenoids don't leak anything (either way) boost can't creep back down un-priming the system!
Not to hijack, but
Starting up to full.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...njection-2.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...njection-1.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...njection-5.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...jection/WI.jpg
I still don't think you'll be able to "pulse" that thing quickly enough to control boost in a useable way, but I wish you luck!
I know how you feel on the budget. I got a spare cold-start injector off for my engine off Ebay. Wound up being a $5 water injection project.
You're dead on about cold start injectors, your friend doesn't have a clue. Cold start injectors are nothing more than an atomizer on a stick, with a solenoid in them to cut the flow on and off. When you feed a CSI (normally) 12v, the solenoid opens -> the fluid squirts out, just like any other relay, or solenoid.
Be careful with CSI's. Most of them only flow 100-150cc @ 30psig (a rare few up to 200cc @ 43psig), and I've seen many people forget that! The good news, is that they have superior spray patterns to the atomizers most people use, and since the solenoids don't leak anything (either way) boost can't creep back down un-priming the system!
Not to hijack, but
Starting up to full.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...njection-2.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...njection-1.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...njection-5.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...jection/WI.jpg
07-13-2005, 01:11 AM
#13
1.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 375
Re: Terminator Mode.
The solunoid can be pusled upto 25 times per second.
How much current does the cold start draw when in open position.
i.e. do I have to use a relay. Or can I just switch it on and off direct. With a trans. The advantage with using a relay is we can swap arround the open or shut bit.
Dam now I have to find a cold start Inj. none of our cars have them. Has to be off an import. Can I use a regular injector. I have arround 30 PSI on my rail/tube.
So you just used a presure sensetive s/w on your project ?
How much do they cost in the US something that can be adjusted to on/off at a preset presure point.
I found something here. But its like 6" by 8" and is used by the Air COn industry costs arround 40$. Way outside my budget.
How much current does the cold start draw when in open position.
i.e. do I have to use a relay. Or can I just switch it on and off direct. With a trans. The advantage with using a relay is we can swap arround the open or shut bit.
Dam now I have to find a cold start Inj. none of our cars have them. Has to be off an import. Can I use a regular injector. I have arround 30 PSI on my rail/tube.
So you just used a presure sensetive s/w on your project ?
How much do they cost in the US something that can be adjusted to on/off at a preset presure point.
I found something here. But its like 6" by 8" and is used by the Air COn industry costs arround 40$. Way outside my budget.
07-13-2005, 12:06 PM
#14
3.0 BAR
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,811
Re: Terminator Mode.
Most new Jacob's switches cost $15-$25usd.
You can't shoot water through a fuel injector. They will quickly corrode shut. Alcohol will errod the seals among corroding them.
Jacob's switches can't take much current draw. You really need to put them on a relay.
Personally, like I said. I use my SMT-6 to trigger all of my stuff through a relay. I haven't done any tuning in a while, but I think I'm triggering mine at >/=50% TPS, and over 2500rpm. That or >/= 50% TPS, and 2.5v on my AFM. I can't remember. It doesn't trigger running around, but it triggers anytime you're on the gas accelerating.
You can't shoot water through a fuel injector. They will quickly corrode shut. Alcohol will errod the seals among corroding them.
Jacob's switches can't take much current draw. You really need to put them on a relay.
Personally, like I said. I use my SMT-6 to trigger all of my stuff through a relay. I haven't done any tuning in a while, but I think I'm triggering mine at >/=50% TPS, and over 2500rpm. That or >/= 50% TPS, and 2.5v on my AFM. I can't remember. It doesn't trigger running around, but it triggers anytime you're on the gas accelerating.
07-13-2005, 02:08 PM
#15
1.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 375
Re: Terminator Mode.
Na man the cold start is for the fuel enrichment part.
FOr the watter Ing. we will use a regular High Presure pump hooked up to a dial a jet.
Ok feedback from Inital testing. Useing a selunoid which is by default closed and power to open bad idea.
Reason being. These switches heat up like crazy.
Mine got really hot after runing for arround an hour. Now I dont know if it was the hot air from the turbo heating it or the curent keeping it locked open.
TO cut a long story short better if you go for something you dont intend on powering for more than 10-15 minutes.
FOr the watter Ing. we will use a regular High Presure pump hooked up to a dial a jet.
Ok feedback from Inital testing. Useing a selunoid which is by default closed and power to open bad idea.
Reason being. These switches heat up like crazy.
Mine got really hot after runing for arround an hour. Now I dont know if it was the hot air from the turbo heating it or the curent keeping it locked open.
TO cut a long story short better if you go for something you dont intend on powering for more than 10-15 minutes.
07-14-2005, 09:31 AM
#17
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 0
07-14-2005, 02:19 PM
#19
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 0
Re: Terminator Mode.
Chinoy - YAAAAAARR!!!1 If you had red hair and succulent breasts, it would be on.
Toysrme - It's called a Hobbs switch, and they make stainless internaled fuel injectors in the OEM that do not corrode shut. www.myo-p.com has a beta controller board I will be using to keep water injected proportional to injector pulse... not available to the public yet, but soon in inexpensive kit form!
I think the PIC is overkill, could use a simple opamp and solid state relay IC that does not suffer from bounce.
A ~3 psi fuckuation is non-issue for some setups. For $10 solution, who cares?
Toysrme - It's called a Hobbs switch, and they make stainless internaled fuel injectors in the OEM that do not corrode shut. www.myo-p.com has a beta controller board I will be using to keep water injected proportional to injector pulse... not available to the public yet, but soon in inexpensive kit form!
I think the PIC is overkill, could use a simple opamp and solid state relay IC that does not suffer from bounce.
A ~3 psi fuckuation is non-issue for some setups. For $10 solution, who cares?
07-14-2005, 02:58 PM
#20
1.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 375
Re: Terminator Mode.
LoL
BTW I found an intresting article on Circuitcellular.com
It involves a Pic 16F73 and an MPX4250AP. It backs off your timing based on boost.
Circuit and code included 1$ (From CC)
So by the looks of it I wont even have to bother with the code need to go chk it out. Just paid for it.
Whilte weare at it may as well throw in a Knock sensor.
Now if only I can find one.
If you cant find the article mail me on rdchinoy@gmail.com
BTW I found an intresting article on Circuitcellular.com
It involves a Pic 16F73 and an MPX4250AP. It backs off your timing based on boost.
Circuit and code included 1$ (From CC)
So by the looks of it I wont even have to bother with the code need to go chk it out. Just paid for it.
Whilte weare at it may as well throw in a Knock sensor.
Now if only I can find one.
If you cant find the article mail me on rdchinoy@gmail.com
