T3 VS TD04H
09-03-2006, 11:22 AM
#1
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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T3 VS TD04H
Hey guys,
I wanted to know which is bigger, a T3 .42 .48 or a Greddy TD04H-15G (from the civic kit)
I know what you guys are thinking about these turbos on a B18a, they are too small, but I want a fast spooling turbo and I very rarely take the engine to more than 5.5k-6k RPMs so it does not bother me if the turbo will be out of breath above 6k RPMs.
The thing is I could have a good deal on the TD04H and the guy had it on a B18a and he says it wasn't that bad.
I don't want to shell out 3000 bucks on a turbo kit so this one would be a nice and cheap startup point.
Thanls!
I wanted to know which is bigger, a T3 .42 .48 or a Greddy TD04H-15G (from the civic kit)
I know what you guys are thinking about these turbos on a B18a, they are too small, but I want a fast spooling turbo and I very rarely take the engine to more than 5.5k-6k RPMs so it does not bother me if the turbo will be out of breath above 6k RPMs.
The thing is I could have a good deal on the TD04H and the guy had it on a B18a and he says it wasn't that bad.
I don't want to shell out 3000 bucks on a turbo kit so this one would be a nice and cheap startup point.
Thanls!
09-03-2006, 11:35 AM
#2
1.5 BAR
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 877
Re: T3 VS TD04H
Yes, it's true that both are a bit small but both will work alright.
a maxed out turbo will not last very long. THAT will bother you eventually.
just slapping a 60 trim compressor on the t3 48 turbo will give you good performance and reliabililty on the B18 and spool up will remain quick as long as you stick with this 0.48 turbine.
The good side of going the T3 way is that you have a standard flange, letting you use most any turbo in the future as opposed to the mitsu that has an odd flange.
a maxed out turbo will not last very long. THAT will bother you eventually.
just slapping a 60 trim compressor on the t3 48 turbo will give you good performance and reliabililty on the B18 and spool up will remain quick as long as you stick with this 0.48 turbine.
The good side of going the T3 way is that you have a standard flange, letting you use most any turbo in the future as opposed to the mitsu that has an odd flange.
09-03-2006, 12:06 PM
#3
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Re: T3 VS TD04H
Are you saying that running the TD04H on my B18a will make it fail prematurely or simply that power output in the long run will be limited? Like I said, I'm not looking for RAW power since the engine is completely stock and won't handle much power. Maybe in the future, but that would mean rebuilding the engine for turbo and if I do that, this prolly means that i'll have the money to put a bigger turbo in at the same time! 
But, which is bigger? Or are they about the same size?
The guy also has a 14b but it's more expensive. Should I think about going with this one? (this one would imply that I need a half-rad and my full core rad is new...)
Thanks for the input!
But, which is bigger? Or are they about the same size?
The guy also has a 14b but it's more expensive. Should I think about going with this one? (this one would imply that I need a half-rad and my full core rad is new...)
Thanks for the input!
09-04-2006, 09:25 AM
#4
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Re: T3 VS TD04H
What I am talking about is that you don't want to use a turbo to the max of it's capacity.
It may spool super quick and work for a little while but it's bad for the turbo, for your engine and for your power.
Look at the following flow chart :
http://www.blaastperformance.com/maps/60-trim-map.jpg
This 60 trim t3 compressor is able of 300 HP but you can see that over 250HP, efficiency goes down.
That means, less HP, less reliability, more overheating of the air, chances of detonation...etc...
Now as far as your mitsu/garrett dilema, you just answered it yourself: You're saying you plan on upgrading in the future?? Then go the garrett way with a t3 flange because it allows you to switch to hundreds of different sized performance turbos as opposed to a mitsu turbo that will narrow down your turbo choices to a few FACTORY turbos that are expensive, hard to find and sometimes impossible to upgrade.
It may spool super quick and work for a little while but it's bad for the turbo, for your engine and for your power.
Look at the following flow chart :
http://www.blaastperformance.com/maps/60-trim-map.jpg
This 60 trim t3 compressor is able of 300 HP but you can see that over 250HP, efficiency goes down.
That means, less HP, less reliability, more overheating of the air, chances of detonation...etc...
Now as far as your mitsu/garrett dilema, you just answered it yourself: You're saying you plan on upgrading in the future?? Then go the garrett way with a t3 flange because it allows you to switch to hundreds of different sized performance turbos as opposed to a mitsu turbo that will narrow down your turbo choices to a few FACTORY turbos that are expensive, hard to find and sometimes impossible to upgrade.
09-04-2006, 10:54 AM
#5
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,276
Re: T3 VS TD04H
t3 all the way. like blaast said, the garrett whould be easier to repair. the flanges for a t3 and t3/t4 are the same so you could always upgrade in the future.
.42/.48 probobly whouldnt be a huge differance than a greddy 15g. but greddy 18gs arent as easy to find as a t3/t4. flanged manifolds from greddy usually dont come with an external wastegate.
.42/.48 probobly whouldnt be a huge differance than a greddy 15g. but greddy 18gs arent as easy to find as a t3/t4. flanged manifolds from greddy usually dont come with an external wastegate.
09-04-2006, 11:27 AM
#6
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Re: T3 VS TD04H
Would running the Greddy TD04H-15G at 6 PSI be considered running it to the max of it's capacity on a B18a?
According to the flow maps I found for the TD04H-15G and if my calculations are ok, it wouldn't be that bad. But I don't know if the maps are the right ones since the turbo is a Greddy and possibly not the same as the mitsu.
I don't have upgrade plans for now. If I ever upgrade it will be because I have the money for and replacing a manifold won't be something that bothers me. What I want right now is a quite reliable starter kit, something that is relatively cheap and something that my stock B18 will handle. I'm not really in a dilemma between the two, just want to have a size reference since the T3 is used by lots of B18 owners.
The thing with the T3 is that it would be more expensive, I won't be able to keep my brand new full-core radiator and will probably have problems with the A/C. But what you said drunkinmaster1 makes a lot of sense also...
I'm lost! I'd like a T3 but the 15G is quite appealing since I get the manifold and the turbo for 250$ and it's a direct fit. It even has the bent part of the downpipe...
Thanks
According to the flow maps I found for the TD04H-15G and if my calculations are ok, it wouldn't be that bad. But I don't know if the maps are the right ones since the turbo is a Greddy and possibly not the same as the mitsu.
I don't have upgrade plans for now. If I ever upgrade it will be because I have the money for and replacing a manifold won't be something that bothers me. What I want right now is a quite reliable starter kit, something that is relatively cheap and something that my stock B18 will handle. I'm not really in a dilemma between the two, just want to have a size reference since the T3 is used by lots of B18 owners.
The thing with the T3 is that it would be more expensive, I won't be able to keep my brand new full-core radiator and will probably have problems with the A/C. But what you said drunkinmaster1 makes a lot of sense also...
I'm lost! I'd like a T3 but the 15G is quite appealing since I get the manifold and the turbo for 250$ and it's a direct fit. It even has the bent part of the downpipe...
Thanks
09-04-2006, 11:56 AM
#7
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,276
Re: T3 VS TD04H
you want to match your turbo according to the displacement of your motor.
the greddy is too small even for a d-series.
youll end up burning up your turbo in 6 months.
youll get all your power in the 1st 3000 rpm's then your blowing hot air.
after that, no power.
your gas milege will suck because youll always be in boost even driving like an 80 year old.
a good match for a b18a or b whould be the following
t3 super 60
or most t3/t4s
holset turbos
greddy+ b-series= gay
go to a junkyard, youd be surprised what you find.
i swapped my tdo5 14b for a super 60 with a bit of shaft play.
the greddy is too small even for a d-series.
youll end up burning up your turbo in 6 months.
youll get all your power in the 1st 3000 rpm's then your blowing hot air.
after that, no power.
your gas milege will suck because youll always be in boost even driving like an 80 year old.
a good match for a b18a or b whould be the following
t3 super 60
or most t3/t4s
holset turbos
greddy+ b-series= gay
go to a junkyard, youd be surprised what you find.
i swapped my tdo5 14b for a super 60 with a bit of shaft play.
09-04-2006, 12:09 PM
#8
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Re: T3 VS TD04H
Ok, you convinced me 
So I assume the same goes for a T3 .42/.48 ?
Remember that I want a fast spooling turbo. My engine rarely sees more than 5.5k RPMs so I don't want full boost at only 4k RPMs. I'd like full boost at something like 3k to have some low end torque.
Thanks for all the input!
So I assume the same goes for a T3 .42/.48 ?
Remember that I want a fast spooling turbo. My engine rarely sees more than 5.5k RPMs so I don't want full boost at only 4k RPMs. I'd like full boost at something like 3k to have some low end torque.
Thanks for all the input!
09-04-2006, 06:18 PM
#9
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 877
Re: T3 VS TD04H
careful with the 0.42 a/r t3.. Some of them are way small.
You need to measure the wheel to determine the trim.
Most of them are 45 trim... But some are 50 trim. THey all look the same and all have 0.42 a/r housings.
For 6 psi, the 0.42 a/r 50 trim t3 works well on the LS but I would still put a 60 trim compressor on it because it kicks ***.
enough beating around the bush, here's my recommendations for a stage one 0.48 a/r turbo:
45 trim, i recommend for no more than 180HP
50trim, i recommend for no more than 230HP
60trim, i recommend for no more than 270HP
T04B 48 trim (S trim), i recommend for no more than 300HP. For more power, you will also need to upgrade the turbine housing to a 0.63 a/r one and then you slightly slow down the spoolup but you gain in top end power and reliability.
You need to measure the wheel to determine the trim.
Most of them are 45 trim... But some are 50 trim. THey all look the same and all have 0.42 a/r housings.
For 6 psi, the 0.42 a/r 50 trim t3 works well on the LS but I would still put a 60 trim compressor on it because it kicks ***.
enough beating around the bush, here's my recommendations for a stage one 0.48 a/r turbo:
45 trim, i recommend for no more than 180HP
50trim, i recommend for no more than 230HP
60trim, i recommend for no more than 270HP
T04B 48 trim (S trim), i recommend for no more than 300HP. For more power, you will also need to upgrade the turbine housing to a 0.63 a/r one and then you slightly slow down the spoolup but you gain in top end power and reliability.
09-04-2006, 09:50 PM
#10
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Re: T3 VS TD04H
Whoa, freaking nice reply! 
So i'll be on the lookout for either a 50 or 60 trim T3 with a .42 a/r
You have any idea what kind of spool RPM this would give?
And BLAAST, would you happen to have some? (something not too expensive) I just noticed that you're 1 hour away from me! Got some tuning services? I'll either need to get it tuned or tune it myself with a Wideband and chip burner...
So i'll be on the lookout for either a 50 or 60 trim T3 with a .42 a/r
You have any idea what kind of spool RPM this would give?
And BLAAST, would you happen to have some? (something not too expensive) I just noticed that you're 1 hour away from me! Got some tuning services? I'll either need to get it tuned or tune it myself with a Wideband and chip burner...
