Please Help With Turbo Selection Z32NA - Holset rear (remote) turbo?!
09-16-2011, 08:27 PM
#1
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 10
Please Help With Turbo Selection Z32NA - Holset rear (remote) turbo?!
Hi - first post and glad to be here. The forum looks like a wealth of knowledge and I'd hope to share what I learn as time goes on. On to it...
I have a 1990 300zx z32 NA. I really love the car and it's staying with me. I have to admit that I like working on it as much as I like driving it, and I'm sure a lot of you feel that way too about yours. I've done a lot of work to it, actually I pulled it from the grave. My goal isn't to make a HP monster - but just to make it a little more fun....
************on a strict budget*************
Let me please say that I'm stubborn, and when I plan to do something I really can't be talked out of it
. I've seen and heard them all....
"Just sell yours and buy a TT!"
"Buy a TT front clip and do a motor swap!"
"Toss a VH45DE in there and be done with it"
"You can't FI a Z32 NA - It'll grenade!"
...and on. I know it's 10.5:1 compression. I know I know I know
But there is a lot that I don't know, which leads me here. I've never 'turbo'd' a car. I've looked at turbo calcs and maps and I think I have a grip on it, The problem is that I plan on doing a rear mount and I am thinking that all the maps and calcs go out the window for the most part. I'm thinking that to start off here, turbo selection might be more dependent on 'gut' instincts and experience. If you don't know what I mean by rear turbo - please check out http://ststurbo.com/ .
The z32 is a 10.5:1 compression, 3.0 liter, DOHC, 24v V6. It is a pretty free flowing design with ~222HP and ~190FP torque. I'll be using a single turbo here. I plan on intercooling , using water(alc) injection, and using TT injectors with an appropriate tune to ward off detonation. I can't imagine going higher that 8 to 10 psi without running into problems. That's OK with me.
Because it will be rear mount I'm thinking that one of the holsets would work well. My exhaust gasses will be much cooler than in a regular turbo set up (like a diesel), and I'm going to want an easy spooler because of the pipe length. Also the other critical thing - Holsets are cheap Obviously the whole thing will be custom and I look forward to building it.
What do you guys think will work best in this application? It would be nice to use something that is capable of more boost than I'm looking for - that could be an excuse for a new motor when I feel like it
Hy35/He351 ? (i'm thinking this)
Hx35 - if so, which one?
Hx40??
Some hybrid?
Thanks for reading my long winded post, and I hope you guys might have some suggestions on selection!
Marc
I have a 1990 300zx z32 NA. I really love the car and it's staying with me. I have to admit that I like working on it as much as I like driving it, and I'm sure a lot of you feel that way too about yours. I've done a lot of work to it, actually I pulled it from the grave. My goal isn't to make a HP monster - but just to make it a little more fun....
************on a strict budget*************Let me please say that I'm stubborn, and when I plan to do something I really can't be talked out of it
. I've seen and heard them all...."Just sell yours and buy a TT!"
"Buy a TT front clip and do a motor swap!"
"Toss a VH45DE in there and be done with it"
"You can't FI a Z32 NA - It'll grenade!"
...and on. I know it's 10.5:1 compression. I know I know I know
But there is a lot that I don't know, which leads me here. I've never 'turbo'd' a car. I've looked at turbo calcs and maps and I think I have a grip on it, The problem is that I plan on doing a rear mount and I am thinking that all the maps and calcs go out the window for the most part. I'm thinking that to start off here, turbo selection might be more dependent on 'gut' instincts and experience. If you don't know what I mean by rear turbo - please check out http://ststurbo.com/ .
The z32 is a 10.5:1 compression, 3.0 liter, DOHC, 24v V6. It is a pretty free flowing design with ~222HP and ~190FP torque. I'll be using a single turbo here. I plan on intercooling , using water(alc) injection, and using TT injectors with an appropriate tune to ward off detonation. I can't imagine going higher that 8 to 10 psi without running into problems. That's OK with me.
Because it will be rear mount I'm thinking that one of the holsets would work well. My exhaust gasses will be much cooler than in a regular turbo set up (like a diesel), and I'm going to want an easy spooler because of the pipe length. Also the other critical thing - Holsets are cheap
Obviously the whole thing will be custom and I look forward to building it.What do you guys think will work best in this application? It would be nice to use something that is capable of more boost than I'm looking for - that could be an excuse for a new motor when I feel like it
Hy35/He351 ? (i'm thinking this)
Hx35 - if so, which one?
Hx40??
Some hybrid?
Thanks for reading my long winded post, and I hope you guys might have some suggestions on selection!
Marc
09-20-2011, 12:20 AM
#2
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 36
im all down with high comp/high boost ! low boost is okay too
recommendsation is the hy/he35 they come with 9cm housings which will help with spool i recommend using a stainless piping , or if on the cheap wrap it up, 80% of actually what spools the turbo is exhaust heat , gasers also run hotter than diesels , 11-1300 F compared to our 1300-1600 F degrees the holsets run out of steam around 30 lbs so i think youll be okay with this turbo
recommendsation is the hy/he35 they come with 9cm housings which will help with spool i recommend using a stainless piping , or if on the cheap wrap it up, 80% of actually what spools the turbo is exhaust heat , gasers also run hotter than diesels , 11-1300 F compared to our 1300-1600 F degrees the holsets run out of steam around 30 lbs so i think youll be okay with this turbo
09-20-2011, 10:23 AM
#3
1.5 BAR
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: CHICAGO
Posts: 935
remounted turbo setups are great if your engine compartment is tight. the only issue i see is that your looking for a strict budget to build this. the rear mounted turbo setups cost more to build as there is a lot more building materials needed. you will need a long braided -3 or -4 line for oil feed. you will need a very pricey scavenge pump. you will need a lot of boost piping. if at all possible see if there is room under the vehicle, near the engine. this will help save you some money in materials and the turbo will be a lot closer to the engine helping spool the turbo.
as for tuning, i would ditch the factory n/a ecm and go with a turbo ecm and harness. or you can go with an affordable stand alone ecm such as megasquirt v2 or v3. these have built in 2.5bar map sensors which will make tuning easier. these can be purchased new for ~400.00.
the 10.5:1 compression maybe a bit high for 10 psi boost on pump gas. make sure you monitor knock sensor if you decide to go this high in boost levels. a good boost compression ratio on pump gas would be ~8.5-9.0:1 compression ratio.
as for tuning, i would ditch the factory n/a ecm and go with a turbo ecm and harness. or you can go with an affordable stand alone ecm such as megasquirt v2 or v3. these have built in 2.5bar map sensors which will make tuning easier. these can be purchased new for ~400.00.
the 10.5:1 compression maybe a bit high for 10 psi boost on pump gas. make sure you monitor knock sensor if you decide to go this high in boost levels. a good boost compression ratio on pump gas would be ~8.5-9.0:1 compression ratio.
09-20-2011, 10:28 AM
#4
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: CHICAGO
Posts: 935
forgot to mention.
post pics. would love to see this build start up. im not into jap cars but if i had the money the only jap vehicles i would by would be the 90's 300zx or supra. i always loved the look of those cars.
have you started this build yet?
post pics. would love to see this build start up. im not into jap cars but if i had the money the only jap vehicles i would by would be the 90's 300zx or supra. i always loved the look of those cars.
have you started this build yet?
09-20-2011, 05:41 PM
#5
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 10
Thanks!
@Mrturbojoe - I'm thinking same on selection for same reasons. I just wish there were science to better predict the outcome with the long pipes. Stainless retains heat better? I wasn't aware of that.
@busa4 - The z32 has the most cramped bay in the universe! Strict budget is my middle name (well, not really). I intended to use hard line for oil feed/return. The scavenge pump ... well...can't get around that. I have a gas mig, a mill, a lathe, and a chop saw (all of which I am just dangerous with!). I intend for all piping, custom flanges etc to be home brewed. I wish there were room closer to the engine - well there is since Nissan did it from the factory. I'm looking to be difficult though
The NA and TT harnesses are essentially the same, as is the ECU. I socketed my ECU and I can easily snap in the TT program as a starting point. My ancient Willem chip burner works a treat on these eproms. Adjustments can be made from the TT program as a starting point - although I'll likely grenade the whole thing! LOL. Wideband anyone??
No, I haven't started yet. I'm in the northeast and the weather is still good enough to drive. When we get closer to winter It'll get planted on the jackstands. I just want to get my hands on a Turbo (the right one hopefully) so when she goes up I can get to work with placement.
We'll start w/ a pic of the car LOL. It has gloss black TT staggered wheels now though. pic a year old.
@Mrturbojoe - I'm thinking same on selection for same reasons. I just wish there were science to better predict the outcome with the long pipes. Stainless retains heat better? I wasn't aware of that.
@busa4 - The z32 has the most cramped bay in the universe! Strict budget is my middle name (well, not really). I intended to use hard line for oil feed/return. The scavenge pump ... well...can't get around that. I have a gas mig, a mill, a lathe, and a chop saw (all of which I am just dangerous with!). I intend for all piping, custom flanges etc to be home brewed. I wish there were room closer to the engine - well there is since Nissan did it from the factory. I'm looking to be difficult though
The NA and TT harnesses are essentially the same, as is the ECU. I socketed my ECU and I can easily snap in the TT program as a starting point. My ancient Willem chip burner works a treat on these eproms. Adjustments can be made from the TT program as a starting point - although I'll likely grenade the whole thing! LOL. Wideband anyone??
No, I haven't started yet. I'm in the northeast and the weather is still good enough to drive. When we get closer to winter It'll get planted on the jackstands. I just want to get my hands on a Turbo (the right one hopefully) so when she goes up I can get to work with placement.
We'll start w/ a pic of the car LOL. It has gloss black TT staggered wheels now though. pic a year old.
10-08-2011, 11:13 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 10
HE351VE is on the bench....
Couple changes... then my question below...
-I'm lowering the compression of the motor with some oe TT pistons - 8.5:1
-Doing a 'bench top' head job (new seals - valve lap - lifter refurb - port 'smoothing'...)
-considering no intercooler and depend on water/meth to start. I want to keep the cold charge pipe as simple as I can as it will be long. Maybe provisions for water/air IC (please - opinions)
The question part, which concerns pipe sizing:
My hot pipes will be long, and I want to keep velocity up without choking of course.
The 351VE hot side input flange opening is ~ 3" X 1.7" minus the radius in the corners. This is somewhere under 5 square inches port area. I have some nice SS pipe in various mandrel bends that has a ID of 1.8". This is a V motor so I am considering coming off the headers in the 1.8" pipe (just over 5 sq in because there will be 2 X 1.8") and merging into a 2 1/2" pipe (just over 5 sq in) onto the turbo flange.
Well, not only does it fit into the budget due to the fact that I already have the 1,8" ID pipe, but it keeps the whole path very consistent in diameter from the headers to the turbo flange - and that diameter matches the turbo flange.....
Am I undersizing, or am I on the right track? --- finally got to the question, huh?
Still in the planning stages/ spare heads on the bench, pistons on the way, and parts gathering
And Thanks!
(upcoming question on the sizing of the long cold charge pipe)
Couple changes... then my question below...
-I'm lowering the compression of the motor with some oe TT pistons - 8.5:1
-Doing a 'bench top' head job (new seals - valve lap - lifter refurb - port 'smoothing'...)
-considering no intercooler and depend on water/meth to start. I want to keep the cold charge pipe as simple as I can as it will be long. Maybe provisions for water/air IC (please - opinions)
The question part, which concerns pipe sizing:
My hot pipes will be long, and I want to keep velocity up without choking of course.
The 351VE hot side input flange opening is ~ 3" X 1.7" minus the radius in the corners. This is somewhere under 5 square inches port area. I have some nice SS pipe in various mandrel bends that has a ID of 1.8". This is a V motor so I am considering coming off the headers in the 1.8" pipe (just over 5 sq in because there will be 2 X 1.8") and merging into a 2 1/2" pipe (just over 5 sq in) onto the turbo flange.
Well, not only does it fit into the budget due to the fact that I already have the 1,8" ID pipe, but it keeps the whole path very consistent in diameter from the headers to the turbo flange - and that diameter matches the turbo flange.....
Am I undersizing, or am I on the right track? --- finally got to the question, huh?
Still in the planning stages/ spare heads on the bench, pistons on the way, and parts gathering
And Thanks!
(upcoming question on the sizing of the long cold charge pipe)
Last edited by mpmarino; 10-08-2011 at 11:21 PM.
11-03-2011, 07:25 PM
#10
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 6
i built a similar set up using a 1988 Nissan 200sx SE..VG3.0/5 SPEED/REAR DRIVE...i used 2.00" stainless flex on the hot side and it must be heat wrapped the full length....on the return cold side, i used 2.00 aluminum pipe and hose...works amazing.
